Andre Torres: Poet of Rhythm

Adam Gow 0:00

Welcome to once a DJ, founder of legendary wax poetics and SVP of global catalog development and marketing at Warner Music Group, Mr. Andre Torres,

Andre Torres 0:11

thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Adam. I actually am now the former SVP of global catalog development and marketing at Warner. But yeah, it was a good ride. Had a couple years there. Thank you.

Adam Gow 0:25

Oh, amazing. How you doing today?

Andre Torres 0:27

Pretty good. You know, it's a little early here in LA but yeah, I'm ready to start my day off with the proper conversation here. So yeah, I can't complain. How's things over there? Yeah,

Adam Gow 0:38

good. I mean, we've had a bad summer weather wise. But beyond that, I'm just I've had a little bit of something blow my mind today. So I've been asking on Instagram about how people best deal with wide spindle holes on records, because I've always just done all kind of the shiny stuff from like tape stickers, and someone's just said super glue. So that's kind of blowing my man, super glue. It sounds incredible, because if you do that and it's too thick, then you can just file it back down, can't you? Yes,

Andre Torres 1:06

yes, no, that is, that's a new one for me too, bro. I'm, I'm impressed whoever came up with that one. That's, yeah, good.

Adam Gow 1:16

I'll get some more info and share it.

Andre Torres 1:18

Yeah, please. Man, that's that's good. Okay, super glue. So bearing

Adam Gow 1:23

in mind all the things that we've got to kind of chat about today, it'd be great to just really start off with how you got into music and records really in your background, and where you're from, things like that.

Andre Torres 1:33

God, because, you know, it's: 1972

Adam Gow 6:49

so what sort of age would you have started doing that collecting? Like, when did you get that bug?

Andre Torres 6:55

Yeah, I was a little late to it. I mean, I, you know, I wasn't even really digging in high school, I know kids who were like, you know, quests like buying records. And he was, like, eight years old, and I was, like, on the Columbia, you know, get eight albums for a penny. So, you know, I did have records as a kid, but I wouldn't have considered myself like a proper collector. So it wasn't really until I got to college that I think I started to kind of like piece it all together. Because I remember freshman year riding around with my man in his car, and we were listening to, like the new de la record. And I think the PE album had just come out too. So, like, these were, like, super impactful, chock full of samples, you know, and we were just riding around listening, and I'm like, Oh, wait, I recognize I recognize it. So I think it was around then that I started to kind of piece it all together, because I grew up in Florida, so, you know, I think it would have been a completely different experience Had we stayed in New York, but my father moved us out when I was a kid, so I kind of was, like, detached. I'd come back. But then again, my grandparents moved when, you know, I was probably 10 or 11. So my teenage, early teenage years, whatever Hip Hop I was getting was coming on from tapes from New York people I knew either that I worked with or family members, you know, who would just kind of like dub. I might have had a six generation cassette of some radio show, most of which I can't even remember who. So, yeah, I think that was, I would even dare say. I got freshman year in college. I got suspended, had to go home for a semester, and then I came back, and that's when I think the collecting really started to kick in. So, yeah, probably like second, third year of college.

Adam Gow 9:08

Okay, can I ask what you got suspended for? Well,

Andre Torres 9:11

it was: 1988

Adam Gow: 11:11

did you buy with the intent to supply and profit? Oh,

Andre Torres: 11:14

yeah, yeah, most definitely. I mean, we were getting regular shipments prior to that one big one coming, you know, I mean, not like kilos of Molly, but, you know, definitely, like, you know, eight balls and half quarter ounces of, you know, pure powdered ecstasy. Yeah, you know, that stuff goes a long way too, so, but

Adam Gow: 11:42

I mean, you know that one of the first thing that's mentioned on your Wikipedia is the word entrepreneur, and I think there's a lot of crossover with a bit of drug dealing and a bit of entrepreneurship, because you learn loads about your supply chains and dealing with customers profit margins. Yeah,

Andre Torres: 11:59

yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting because I didn't get into the details about why we left New York, but that was because the RICO laws were just coming into effect, which are the racketeering and and so my father tells me the story of how these officers, agents were coming by the house looking for him, because he was also an entrepreneur. Again, used to own a record store, and you know, so I guess you know, he had been in the streets, and, you know, prides himself on being like a New York Rican, you know, half Puerto Rican, half black, like hustler and the streets of New York. And never had a job. He just hustled. And so drugs clearly became part of that equation. And, you know, I guess he got pretty big, big enough he's, like, I was more of a connector kind of guy, but I did pretty well for myself, well enough so that he said, One day he's walking down the street New York, and he sees these guys walking towards him, and they go, are you Benny Torres, my father's name? And he just ignored him, like, I don't know who these guys are. And they stopped him and were like, Hey, we know who you are, and we know what you've been doing, and it's only a matter of time, because clearly the RICO laws were in effect, and they were trying to get everybody. And that was literally when he was like, Yo, we got to get the out of New York. And so he tells me the stories, like, if I had a nickel for every dollar that somebody owed me, we'd be rich right now. But he literally just came back told my mother, pack up. We're gonna leave. And that's how we moved to Florida. So it was a little bit of a, you know, we had to leave town and a little bit of a hurry. And, yeah, that was, you know, I, my father was here couple up last month for my kids graduation, and was telling me more stories. It's great now, because he shares, over shares things with me about back then, and, you know, he told me I was wasn't until I got to Florida that I actually learned hard work, because it had been hustles pretty much his entire life up until that point. And then now he finally was in a, you know, a new state with a family, and he had to kind of figure it out so no more, no more drug sales.

Adam Gow: 14:45

It must have been of all the places to move to not get into the drug industry. Again, kind of funny one,

Andre Torres: 14:53

exactly, especially because it was the business of cocaine, clearly, especially. So yeah, and it all comes back full circle much later in life, my father just he's actually trying to set his own podcast up. But this guy has more stories than anyone I've ever met, and I've told him, bro, you gotta like, I've been trying to even record some of them, because, yeah, he, uh, exactly what you just said. Florida became pretty well known for its, you know, cocaine. And at some point, when I was in private school and the tuition became a bit of an issue, my father tells me he jumped back in the game and got me through private school. Yeah, back on his old his old way. So, yeah, you know, the entrepreneurial hustler spirit, I definitely think, is something that, yeah, I was kind of like around to sort of see with my father. You know, he never was like the guy who had like a job for 20 years. I got the gold watch when he retired. He was always like moving in and out of different positions and different industries and just always trying to level up. You know, we were always like moving into a better neighborhood. And, you know, again, he brought us to Florida and put us, you know, my sister and I in private school. I went to private school pretty much my whole life, from Jesuit High School in a Catholic elementary school. So that was super important to him, and it was like he was going to make it happen, however. So I definitely admire the guy for that, and try to kind of emulate some of those traits as a father myself. So yeah,

Adam Gow: 16:56

so what did you study at college?

Andre Torres: 16:58

I actually got my degree in painting, yeah, fine arts. You know, I started out engineering actually, and then that first semester of engineering calculus was like, oh shit. I guess you really, really have to want this. And I realized at that point, you know, I was kind of still trapped in like, Jesuit High School brain, of like, got to get a good job, and I wasn't even thinking creatively at that point. And once I got to college, and I transferred out of engineering and came back wanting to do architecture, so I was like, at least I could be creative, but it does have some sort of engineering aspect to it and but at the same time, I took one art class ceramics, and that was it, man. I just like, was like, No, I want to make shit, like, with my hands, and I don't want to have to deal with, like, you know, construction crews and creating models of buildings that may not ever get made. And so, yeah, I just stayed in there with the ceramics guys who were mad cool. They'd be in there late, smoking weed, spinning pots, and I'd be hanging with them like, damn you know this shits ill, and yeah, so I eventually said, You know what, I'm gonna get a fine arts degree. And then, you know, my concentration being painting. So, you know, I got out and thought I was gonna go to grad school and get masters and go teach, you know, all my teachers, oh, you should go, and you can go teach at Yale or some great school and yada yada yada. So that was really the intention.

Adam Gow: 18:45

Was that because of your ability in art, or was it because of your communication skills that they suggested teaching at that level? Yeah, definitely.

Andre Torres: 18:53

My abilities and art, you know, I had been winning, like, a bunch of awards at college, and, you know, I was the only black dude, probably in the art program, at least within this smaller painting realm. And, you know, I had a couple homies, you know, but, um, yeah, I was pretty dead set on it. And, you know, I used to do a lot of, like, you know, very identity, black identity politics stuff and, you know, but the problem was, you know, I'm looking at some of these other black artists I go to, you know, I get to New York, I go to these shows, and, like, there's these amazing black artists making work, and me and him, the only two brothers in The damn Museum, in the gallery. I'm like, Well, this is some great stuff, but where are we? We need to be in here looking at the making all this great stuff for us, but a bunch of white people here. And he's like, Oh, that's a great point, bro. We need to talk more about that. And so, you know, I think that was where I started. They get a little disillusioned with, like, the art world, and, you know, a career in art, and, you know, I think music eventually just sort of eclipsed, yeah, my interest or passion.

Adam Gow: 20:14

Just on a side note on that, someone I know is programming, or has been programming DJs at the Tate Modern in London. Oh yeah, they're hammering that. They need diversity within the DJs, but then the clientele pretty much that can afford to go there and drink, when a beer cost you eight pounds, it's pretty much just kind of like rich, middle aged white people from Surrey. And I don't think they kind of realized the irony of that. Yeah, right. It's a really funny one, yeah, yeah. Now, I've seen that after college. Then what was it that you went on to do? Because it was quite a long time until wax poetics, wasn't it? Yeah. I

Andre Torres: 20:54

mean, I came to New York in 95 looking to go to grad school. I started working at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, you know, thinking eventually I was going to go to grad school, I had been kind of looking at Pratt and, you know, I'm working in a museum with a bunch of other artists, pretty much all of them. I started out like at visitor services that moved into being a security guard, which is what all the kind of cool art dudes were, and you just stand there and have to do anything. It looked easy. But then I thought, you know, fuck, I gotta do this for 12 hours today, like, and it was like, you know, brutal schedule 212, hour days on Friday and Saturday, and then you'd have to do eight hours on Sunday. So it was like you would be, you know, at 30 hours, just on three days. And so the schedule was crazy, but we used to just go out and party after sometimes, just stay out all night and come back into work the next day to do another 12 hours. So yeah, I, you know, pretty much did that as long as I could, until, you know, this union was like, Sorry, bro, we can't help you anymore. You know, you got too many infractions. And, you know, because you'd be standing against the wall, and they'd be like, Taurus, red flag, you know, they write you up. You know, it's union and all this, I was like, bro, listen, and then I'm looking at these guys I'm working with there, you know, I'm like, just out of college, maybe a couple years, and I, you know, I had some trouble in college, as you know, so my schedule was a little behind. But I'm looking at these guys, man, they've been working as a guard at the museum for eight years, like, 10 years after college. Like, bro, I'm not trying to live here and be a guard forever, like, so I was like, whatever, bro, I don't even really care. So, you know, I was just out trying to figure out kind of what I was going to do. And wound up working at like this sign place where we would go and install these big things on Windows and wrap these busses and advertisements. And, you know, I thought, at least I can kind of just do this and chill. You know, I was like, just collecting records. You know, my man had a sampler, so I would take a bunch of records up to his crib. And, you know, we, we knew a guy, Tony Edwards rip at freeze records. I remember I walked into his office and he had reasonable doubt like had just come in, and lot of people don't know this, that Jay and Dane, they couldn't get distribution for reasonable doubt when they first put it out. So the original version of that record, which I have two of here somewhere, came out on freeze records. That was their original distributor, which is a tiny little dance label out of New York, if you're not familiar with it, and and that was really kind of like my first kind of entree in to understanding the music industry. And you know, we were just doing like instrumental Hip Hop joints for like these compilations he was putting together. But, you know, we probably did about four or five of them, you know, a couple we pull in some kids to rhyme on. And I was primarily not, I was unable to program a beat because I didn't own the machine. But I would just bring records in and be like, Yo, sample this part right here. And then, you know, he would kind of chop it and arrange it. And so, yeah, I started to kind of get more into that. And, you know, fading out of art. And, you know, eventually I got to the point where I started going pretty hard on records. I'm like now working in the World Trade Center, and, you know, I'm making pretty decent money.

Adam Gow: 24:57

What were you doing there?

Andre Torres: 24:59

So I wound. Up, you know, after I kind of left the side business, I remember moving in, I'm like, yo, this is for the birds. I mean, we're up three, four o'clock in the morning in like a bus depot in New Jersey, like, you know, 20 degree weather, like trying to wrap these busses, and I'm laying on the ground in the garage, and I'm just like, Yo, this is now, bro, this ain't it? No, so I was, I had to get out of this, so I went and just got, like, a corporate job and, like a temp agency, like, oh, they need somebody to go do some paperwork. I'm like, yo, I don't gonna lay on a ground in a garage at three in the morning, bro, say less. So I went over, got this little gig, waited the second day, and, you know, I came in with dreads, and I was, like, on some, you know, scroungy art guy, but I'm in this corporate setting, and I'm like, Man, this is mad comfortable. So I cut my dreads off the second day and, and next thing you know, this guy kind of took me under his wing, who had kind of organized this program that they were bringing temps in for, and he took a liking to me, and he kind of made me like a manager there inside the office, but I was still a tip, but I'm managing like five other People at work there. And then he eventually was like, bro, I'm about to leave to go to this company that was in the World Trade Center. It's like, you should come with me. What to do, what? And he's like to recruit. Because it was like, you know, 98 you know, big it game, you know why 2k programmers all that? So I went with him, and he taught me how to be a technical recruiter. And so I was recruiting guys in it working on the 79th floor the World Trade Center. Did that for a year. He got an offer from a place right on floor below us, and asked me to come with him. So I did. And that's when I got into like selling software. It was the very beginning of like Voice over IP, so I started doing like business development and but at the same time, now I got some money, and now I'm going ham on eBay. I'm, like, buying a shit ton of records, and I live in an apartment a base of an apartment in Brooklyn, so I don't want my shit getting stolen, so I'm having everything shipped to me at the World Trade Center. So I mean, you know the mail girl would come and be like, Audrey here and like, pull me like, a stack of records and boxes, like, on my desk, and people like, what is that? I'm cracking it open? Like, oh, shit, the wanna record. Oh, like, and they're looking at me inside, you know, the World Trade Center, like, what is this fucking got to it? And, you know, at that point, I think that was when I got the idea for wax poetics when I wanted to, I think it was around, oh God, maybe David Axelrod. You know, at that time, it's like the internet is really starting to kind of bubble. And I don't know if you remember the breaks, but it was a, it might even still be around the breaks.com. Was like a site where it

Adam Gow: 28:30

got it got it got closed down a few months ago,

Andre Torres: 28:35

I had a feel. Oh, really. Wow, that recently. Oh

Adam Gow: 28:38

no, no. Sorry. I'm getting, I'm getting confused. No, sorry. Soul struck was wound, wound down. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. But yeah, won't they with, with a lot of knowledge, yeah,

Andre Torres: 28:49

so. And a lot of the soul struck guys came out of the breaks, like the original breaks, like you'd have Diplo, like, writing chats and, you know, I mean, it was like, you didn't even know. I just saw Diplo. Nobody knew who any of these people were. We were just, like, collecting records. But I started to understand, like, there were people in the UK and in Italy and Germany and Japan. And I'm starting to realize, yeah, this like, motherfuckers all over the world are on this shit, you know, but they're like, it was some serious record nerdery. We were just like, breaks, breaks, breaks, where's breaks? What are their breaks on this record? Are there break? You know? It was almost like everything else was beside the point. And that was our focus. Was just collecting breaks. And so, you know, I think I kind of like, started to ask some questions that were maybe a little too esoteric for those groups. That's what I got. My boy would be like, well, you know, it starts to put your record nerds. You can't be like, asking questions like this, you know, I'd be like, talking about the evolution. Should have black music, or this, that and the other, and these guys like, what, come on. We're just trying to correct records here. So I was really getting into it, and again, coming out of like, private school and wanting to be an engineer. And, you know now I'm seeing I've gone to art school, and I'm making all these sort of connections between, like hip hop and borrowing and sampling and and modern art. And, you know, I'm realizing, you know, this is a real art form that people probably should know more about how this all came about and how it's all connected to these records. And so I really wanted to kind of like my, my boy was a documentary. He was a filmmaker. But I was like, Hey, would you help me put this documentary together on, like, record nerds and record collecting, and how those records became like, the beginning of, like hip hop when they started sampling those. And so I started doing research, and I started going out to bookstores and magazine stores library trying to find information on some of these guys. I've been hearing about David Axelrod, and you know, I knew the sly stones and James browns, but there were all these new artists that people were talking about or had no idea, no idea even how to find out more info about them. You know, it's the very beginning of the internet, but there weren't, like, huge music sites up already with all this info, so I really kind of took it upon myself to say, well, there's a story here. I don't know how it needs to be told, but if there's no information to make a documentary, maybe I should just work on getting the information, in case someone in the future wants to make a documentary, then at least they'll have something to go back to. And that was really where the idea for wax politics came from. You know, I've really hit my man and that I'd just been cool with, I mean, I had been cool with him, and the very at the very end of college, we met, and then he wound up moving to New York for about a year, and we would go out dig in. And then he left, moved to San Diego. So I would be like, out digging on a Saturday or whatever. I'd come home with a bunch of records, and then I would hit him and be like, Yo, check this shit. And I put this, Oh, damn, some break would come on, and then he'd be playing me records, and we'd be going back and forth. And so I was like, Yo, dude, I got this idea for like, a magazine, I guess, like, you know about, like, all the shit we're talking about on the breaks records we talk about producers and breaks collecting. Oh, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, let's do it. And, you know, again, I was in New York, he was in San Diego, and he was like, Yo, I've worked with a guy who is a designer here, you know, he wants to get into doing print because they worked at some internet company. And he's like, you know, I was like, Cool. I never even met the dude. I'm like, yeah, cool is, can he, like, lay out a magazine? Yeah, cool. Straight. So that was it. That was how it started. I just was like, Yeah, let's start putting so, you know, I'm reading about all these now. It's the beginning of the internet. So people are starting to talk about records, and there's little websites popping up. But it's like, I'm realizing, you know, there's a bunch of knowledge, but it just hasn't been called less, but there's, like, writers out on the internet. So I'd read an article on the internet, and then I look and see, you know, back then everybody would put their email address. So I'm like, Oh, I emailed a guy, yo. I just read your article about, you know, whatever, Tito or Eddie, Paul, Mary, or whatever. And, yo, I'm like, putting this magazine together. And Manny, I'd love for you to contribute. You know, I don't have any money. Like, we're just really starting this thing out. And, you know, I remember, even I'm still friends with John Carlucci. I remember when I wrote him, and he wrote back something like, I remember he said something like, I really appreciate your passion. And, yeah, let's, let's do something, you know, and I remember kind of that still guides me, because that was really what drove everything, was my passion. And as I emailed people excitedly, it kind of came through about this idea I had, and even though I didn't have any money, it was the passion who kind of be, like, Yo, I'm down like, what do you need? You know. And I always promised that, man, one day when we get money, you know, make sure. And you know, I was actually able to live up to my word on that. So, yeah, it really just started with me reaching. Now, little by little, and doing less and less work in the World Trade Center, to the point that on August 4, 2001 while being employed on the tower one of world trade I was on the 78th floor at that point, and they were like, Yo, listen, bro. And I mean, I wouldn't even, I didn't argue with him. I knew I wasn't doing any work, literally coming in there, emailing writers on I'm, like, trying to put together a magazine on their dime. So they're like, bro, you know, I was, like, actually relieved, like, good. I could go now work on the magazine. And I had been having conversations with a guy across people in the world trade center after work, we'd go have drinks, and he was a bartender there, and, you know, I told, man, I'm working on this magazine. And he's like, Oh, I used to sell ads, word shit. So I go over there after work every day and ask him about advertising and ad sales and how that works, and how do you get them, and this, that and the other. And what do you got to do, media kit. What

is all this like rates? And I don't know jack shit about a magazine, so I'm learning it all. I

remember I bought this. You know what? Those dummies, how to for dummies. It was like how to run a magazine or newsletter. I think was the name of the book. And I bought it. And just little by little. I read it and just pieced it together. And, yeah, I got to the point where, you know, we were close, but not quite there. And then, you know, they laid me off.

Adam Gow: 36:34

Were there many people and you said, Yeah, I'm gonna do a magazine. I'm gonna do a magazine with. Were there many people that were like, Are you sure you want to do a magazine? Have you thought about doing a website, given the sort of timing of it?

Andre Torres: 36:45

Yeah. Now, I know, yeah. I mean, I think people, this is like 2000 so you got to think back to, like, the 90s zine era. You know, people, when I'm telling them I want to do a magazine, they're thinking about some stapled version that I do at zero, I Xerox that, you know, Staples or or something. So, you know, I don't think they had an understanding of what I was talking about when I said magazine, because I had gone around, I was obsessed with magazines I would buy every especially if it's hip hop. So I had everything from the source to ego trip to 4080, to and I'm literally going out buying them all, and each of them maybe vibe or whatever, would have like one article on something to do with records. It could have been like one artist or, you know, one digger article. And I just ripped them all out, the one article that all these magazines had about records. And then I put them all together, and was like, this, the magazine I want to make. And so people just figured it was going to be like a Z, you know. And this is so early, at 2000 you know, people were like, my guy had built like a geo city site about David Axelrod. That's how he and Egon connected, because he was obsessed with David Axelrod and made this like website about it. So, yeah, you know, I think it just seemed like the internet, you know, it's, I'm coming out of, like, going to art school. I'm looking at all these art journals, how they're, like, printed on really nice paper, and how they use footnotes, and people take this shit very seriously. And, you know, I'm realizing, you know, some of these hip hop magazines are, like, printed on porn mag paper that off register, printing it. You know, I'm like, man, it's some of this shit. It doesn't look like it. You should take it seriously. So, you know, I just got the idea to like, present this stuff that typically is presented as, like, throw away culture, as, like high art, and put it up there in the way that you would talk about, you know, Renaissance architecture or any other kind of high art form. And so that was like the goal I knew also, though, because I had been reading a shit ton of anything I could find about hip hop books, magazines, whatever I did not want, and no shots at Tricia Rose. But there's like, an academic kind of, like hip hop scholar approach that is, like very kind of, like ivory tower highfalutin could be black academics writing this stuff, but it kind of takes this other air and it almost becomes inaccessible, especially like, and, you know, the mid 90s and stuff where, you know these, they weren't even necessarily part of the culture. Sometimes they may have been African American, but they were still like, very academic and almost like had an issue with. Some hip hop, especially like the misogynistic parts. And so I knew I wanted to make this a smart magazine, but I didn't want it to be an academic journal. Even though we started calling it a quarterly journal, I was trying to not make it too dry. And as I kind of did a couple issues and started to understand, you know, newsstand and everything, I started to kind of perfect that formula. But, yeah, you know, I think really, that was primarily how, you know, the whole thing kind of just started with me just thinking, hey, you know what, let's put a magazine together. And the next thing you know, I got laid off from that job on August 4, 2001 had still been going back to the World Trade Center to talk with the guy about ads. And then, of course, a month later, the powers fell, and you know, I was going to be going back to the World Trade Center later that day. So you know, I'm looking at everything. And for the next two weeks, after 911 I was like in a days, because I were a bunch of people I knew who worked there that were missing still, well, I hadn't heard anything about because, you know, I wasn't there anymore, out of contact, not sure if they'd made it out that day, or didn't. So I was like a zombie I remember, like, I didn't, and I was telling my partners, bro and they were about to go into a war. Like, I don't even think anybody's gonna want to read a magazine about music, bro, like, and we might just, like, did this whole thing. They were like, Oh man, you know, we're real close. So, but, you know, take some time and, you know, and over the course of two weeks, I just realized, damn y'all, I could have been there that day. You know, there's a reason why I got laid off a month earlier. So I can start this project, or I could finish this project. And you know what? Like, at this point, we're so close. Let me just get this first one out, even if it's the only one we ever do, and then I'll figure it out from there. And that was kind of, you know, August 11, 2000 or September 11, 2001 three months to the day later, we launched. We had a launch party on December 11, 2001 at Ludlow bar with like Kane and and Mao and language and monk and a ton of other DJs. Nobody really knew what the hell we were, what we were doing. It was just mostly all the heads there. But yeah, that was it. First one came out. I didn't have any understanding about what to expect, but people were feeling it.

Adam Gow: 42:48

How did you work out how many copies to print up?

Andre Torres: 42:53

Yeah, I mean, really, just trying to figure out how much money we could get together and how many copies that would get us. And I think it came to like, 5000 copies, I think for the first one, and then, yeah, they we put them out, and it sold out, like, immediately under unfortunately, I didn't know how that all worked. Like, I'm like, okay, so where's my money? They're like, Oh, wait, no, you gotta wait six months, and then we'll sell this stuff. And then What the fuck? So, you know, that's why the second issue Wex, what is doesn't come out for about six months. Because I was like, Well, wait, we gotta put another issue out. I thought, would that be quarterly here? But we had to wait for the money to come back in from the first issue before we could even go to print. You know, before we got credit and they started to understand, Oh, these guys are actually serious and turning this into a real business. So yeah, that was pretty much how the whole thing started. Man,

Adam Gow: 43:47

did you successfully sell ads into the first copy? Then, yeah,

Andre Torres: 43:50

yeah, we definitely could have probably printed twice as many, which is why those early issues became, at one point, especially so, collectible, but, yeah, you know, I remember even calling, I won't name names or businesses, but I remember calling some, like, major online retailers back then, prior to it coming out. And, you know, like, Hey, this is Andrew trying to start this magazine. And you know, they're all like, ah, yeah. Well, you know, because they're like, the big dogs on the internet selling all the cool stuff, yeah. I mean, like, they didn't have time to talk to me. And it was one guy who ran the thing, again, not to name names, and he was, like, very short, and, like, you know, but again, I'm coming out of corporate environment where as a recruiter, I'm making 300 cold calls a day. So I'm living on the phone. That's the way I was utilizing that skill set to recruit writers. Because I'm now writing letters like I'm recruiting an IT guy. I'm just now doing it to writers all about hip hop and breaks and shit. So, you know, I. I think that was kind of the thing that, like, threw through it all off. Because, yeah, suddenly, you know, I was somewhat self sufficient and being able to kind of just put it all together. I just didn't understand, like, the logistics of it and the business side. You know, one guy who became a really important part in that was Raymond Roker, who started herb magazine because it was one of the only other magazines like music kind of MD that I knew of. And somebody mentioned, Yo, you got to talk to Raymond, and I didn't know the guy, but they connected us. And I just remember, like, bro, how do you do this? And he was like, Oh, you got to talk to Ralph dabila. I'll never forget the guy's name. And I was like, Who's that? He goes, that's he's a indie press or whatever. And it was like, one of the major indie distributors that was the guy who would get you into Barnes and Noble. And now it was it once we got linked up with him, then I started to really understand how the newsstand works and how distribution works, and that's really when the growth period began. And yeah, that was a long, long time ago now, but yeah, yeah, it was quite an adventure. Were people

Adam Gow: 46:22

picking up advertising then in the first one, sorry, the first one had

Andre Torres: 46:26

like three, yeah, like three ads. And I don't think any of them were paid for. I think they were all trades. I know one was turntable lab, wow. I'm not even sure on the maybe mix well, or something like that, one of those brands, but yeah, I think there were like three, and they know I wasn't really equipped to sell. I was playing publisher, editor, Chief copy editor, photo editor, you know. So I didn't even really have any understanding about that side of the business yet. So it wasn't until around the fourth issue that I got a call from a guy who was like, Hey, man, how's it going? I'm on cool. It's like, oh, I'm in the new issue in an ad. Like, that's like, my boy and I's company, and one of one of the T shirts that was in it from a company called Digital gravel, by a guy who ran this company called Nima. Nima is actually pretty famous artist now, so big shelves to Nima. He used to run digital gravel, and, yeah, he had made a t shirt with his boy that was in the digital gravel ad. So he hits me up. He's like, and he tells me, Oh, I sell ads for DJ magazine. What, bro? And so he starts calling me, What a hell of a sales guy. I tell him, still to this day, he never asked me for a job or anything. He would just call me and talk to me and about the magazine, what we're working on. And I pick his brain about ad sales. And eventually he started doing, like, some consulting. Like, here, let me try to sell ads for you. And you know, I'm like, here, you keep x percentage of it, and, you know, give us the rest. And that worked so well. At one point he was, like, making more money than I was comfortable to give him from a percentage standpoint, because I was like, Well, damn. Like, we need to keep this in house. Like, why don't you come work for us? And so that was pretty much how Dennis Coxon came on and became our ad guy, which is really where the growth period bringing in Adidas and all the, you know, music instrument makers, all the little indie record labels and retail spots and internet retailers like he went deep, and that's what we really started To establish, like a advertising identity. But, yeah, that was, you know, I knew absolutely nothing about it. And you know, that was probably the most difficult learning curve and understanding how to make a magazine cool, fun and still profitable. And it's especially at that era, was definitely starting to become more challenging than it had been in years past. Was

Adam Gow: 49:26

it easy from the start? Because, I mean, this is really interesting stuff to me, because there's so many parallels with certain things that I I'm trying to do, and there's things sometimes I think, like I always tend to work alone. I'm not very good at collaborating. I can try and psychoanalyze why could be one of many reasons. But like, I think something that can be hard sometimes is when people have just very, very subtly different values that might affect big decisions for. How something goes is that something that was ever a challenge during this growth period? And if so, how did you manage it? Yeah, you

Andre Torres: 50:07

know, I think you make a great point, and then you coming out of, you know, being a fine artist who sits in a studio painting all day, I definitely feel that very solo, independent mind that again, most of the time I was not working with groups of people, but much more solitarily So, this was more challenging than I probably thought it would be initially. I don't think I gave it too much thought at first and you know, but as it evolved, and we get to a point where, you know, we're getting an office and, you know, now we have, like, employees and interns. And, you know, I was sort of like fumbling my way through understanding how to be, you know, CEO, how to be a leader, how to properly, you know, run a company. That was a huge learning curve, but I think, you know, I started to understand I can't do everything, and I need people who are really good at the stuff I'm not. And so, you know, that was why I called Brian digiti, the homie who became my co founder and an editor, because I had worked with him briefly when I wrote an article for a magazine in college, and he was kind of working with the editor. And so that was kind of how we first met. So I knew I couldn't I mean, I loved reading articles, but I was no English major, no journalism major. I didn't know, like, how things needed to be, copy editing it and all that. So bringing him in, I knew that I had a level of quality from an editorial standpoint I wanted, and so I knew he could deliver that. And so, yeah, it was a similar situation with Dennis, where it was like, listen, I can't sell these ads. I'm definitely more of like a creative person than a sales guy, but because they're a different animal, because once he came in and I saw, you know, it's just like, bold dog, like these guys, sales guys are just like, go get the money. And so I'm like, yeah, hey, go, you know. And so that was pretty much how I learned how to lean and trust other people and work more collaboratively. You know, I was still I was diagnosed with OCD last year. So, you know, I look back at my life in certain periods in the way that I handle things, and my like attention or over attention to detail, and that is definitely my OCD coming through. I didn't understand it back then. Now I have a term for it, and I can recognize what I'm in it when it's happening, but back then, I just thought I was, you know, giving things the right amount of attention and thought and not overthinking and giving over attention. But, you know, there's something to be said for that, because that definitely, especially as you're working with people that you're learning about, you know how they work and how you work and how you work together. You know, that's a process that you know takes time to kind of settle in and so, you know, I think I may have, at times, certainly been unprepared for how to navigate that. And, you know, popped off on people, or got angry, or was just running around like a chicken with my head cut off, and couldn't give people the proper attention as like a manager and leader. So, you know, you kind of fumble your way through a lot of that, but with that comes like the understanding that, you know, all of these people are very important to the process, and without them, you know, it probably wouldn't exist. So I have become much more comfortable over the years working in teams, and again, having, like a team of my own who I can kind of say, hey, I need you to go do this. I need you to go do that. And then, you know, it all kind of work and stay cool and still keep it breezy and not get too stressed out and not pop off on people. You know that I realize is the real skill of management and leadership, that even guys I've worked with who've been in the record industry for 50 years down there, still are in Cape. Capable of doing properly, because they grew up in an era when you didn't have to care about how other people feel. You just gave out of your office. Start screaming and yell and pound on your desk, and everybody goes, Oh, but you try that shit in a startup with 20 something year old kids. You see how that works. They'll look at you, like, Who the is this guy? Like, nobody's really scared anymore by somebody pounding on their desk. So, yeah, you know, the game changes, and you got to figure out new ways and strategies. So, yeah.

Adam Gow: 55:34

So something else that I wanted to ask about is kind of reaching out to artists. Say, like a mad lib, for example, would there have been a lot of artists like that, that when you started the magazine, they were quite easy to get in contact with, but then as the profile grew, would it maybe get harder or, like, I mean, your kind of Rolodex must have gotten pretty full with some amazing contacts over the years, I guess from doing the magazine, yeah,

Andre Torres: 56:00

yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, it's not like I would pick up the phone and call mad Liberty go, What's up, bro? But, you know, having Egon be right there at stone's throw, and again, he was big fan in the magazine had been cool with Brian on the kind of like, I mean, that David Axelrod cover. Well, it was a two parter because he was on the cover of 14, and then the second half of the article was in 15. That was him and Egon that wrote that. So, you know, when we wanted to get to Mad Lib, we knew. Well, ego is right there at Stone, so hit him up and see, you know, and again, he can now go and advocate for it and say, Oh, these guys are legit, and, you know, they're not going to waste your time. So, yeah, that's how we got madly, but like, the very first issue, and then he, as you mentioned, you know, years later, he winds up on the cover, you know, of like issue 50 something to, maybe, I can't remember exactly now, but um, and yeah, in that time, I watched maglib Go from the little producer guy on stone's throw, who You know, was in the loot pack, and, you know, put out some of his own records to becoming, you know, a huge, major force in, you know, I wouldn't even pin, pigeonhole it to hip hop, because, you know, I think the way that mad lib has sort of like subtly affected many parts of music is probably not easy to kind of like overstate so, you know, that was actually the interview that I did myself when we wound up interviewing Mad Lib the second time, because, you know, I didn't interview too many people willingly. I was never, I never thought of myself as a great writer or, you know, interviewer, even for that matter, I knew so many great writers that worked for us that I would always say, here you do it like I don't. The couple of times I did it was really kind of like, out of necessity, you know, Eugene McDaniels, or I had really something I wanted to talk to that person about. So when it came to maglib, and it was like, well, who's gonna do it. I was like, You know what? Yeah, fuck it. I'll, I'll do this one. So, yeah, getting a chance to just sit with him and talk about music, and, you know, black music specifically, and you know, watching his journey from that point, you know, to becoming like a guy who's, you know, sending beats to Kendrick and Dr Dre it's like, damn, this is a hell of an arc this guy has had. So I think it in seeing that you start to kind of see us too. You see your evolution in someone else who has been there with you, kind of at the bottom from the beginning, and you kind of are starting to see how all of this stuff we were talking that's why it's so funny. I get into the major labels, and everything we've been talking about for 20 years is suddenly now they want to start talking about, I'm like, bro, where were you? I would call these labels when we were doing the magazine, and they'd be like, I remember we called EMI. We're like, Hey, we got this. Brian, my partner, I'd done this, like, HB, Barnum. I mean, God, not, yeah, not. It was HB and not Barnum, but, and Axelrod, his producer, and we call EMI. We're like, hey, we want to do this day. Rexella compilation, and the woman goes, Are you sure he's one of our artists? Now, remember, it was David Axelrod who created the black music department at Capitol Records, so for her to say you sure he's on our lane, it's like, yeah, he's pretty much a big part of the history of your label, but clearly you don't know that. And of course, there's nobody there who has any context, because you're some lady who works in a legal department. And so you start to understand they just don't give a shit. Didn't give a shit until and now it's like, you can't ignore it. Records, record sales are through the roof, and now I get to universal and suddenly, you know, I can, like, put out three David Axelrod records, because now, oh, everybody knows about David Axelrod, and you realize there's actually, like, music on here that people value. And, yeah,

Adam Gow: 1:01:01

so how did that move happen? And when

Andre Torres: 1:01:05

was it so, yeah, I, you know, did wax fordex all the way through? You know, things falling apart. Essentially, in the media industry, magazines were closing left and right. And we had, you know, in the financial crisis, we had kind of navigated our way through that, because at this point now, we've like, you know, built magazine, Japanese version. We're publishing books. We're now, like, consulting for Cody go, who had just bought the Fania catalog, and so we're helping them, like, rebrand and relaunch the label. So we were pretty good through the sort of worst of the crisis. It didn't really come until after that, when they started to, kind of like, settle in around 2010 11, where it started to really hit. And I was like, oh shit. Like, you know, the project with Fania was done, and things are drying up. The newsstand internet is definitely like coming and, you know, I had, you talk about partners and working with other people. I had, you know, come to my partners with, like, I think, like, we might want to go hard on this, like, internet thing. And, you know, they fought me like, oh, man, this is we don't, we don't do internet stuff, you know, we're a print magazine, and this, that and the other, I said, Yeah, but if you look at where this is going, everything's turning into digital so we're gonna have to address it at some point. But, you know, there really wasn't much of a desire. And you know, again, when you're not a dictator, you can't just say, I don't give a shit. I'm we're going to do it anyway, you know. So, you know, I kind of played the backseat on that. And, you know, as time went and it became more and more important, you know, at some point you kind of play catch up. It's like a little too, little too late. So, you know, later they came to me, oh, Dre I think you were right. We probably should have, you know, but by then it was too late. So, you know, there's not really much you could do about that. But you know, I don't think we were even equipped well enough to be able to handle what you would need in order to scale a website like we were hoping to do. And then, you know, we're in a pretty good niche. You know, it's not like we were talking about like the biggest commercial music that was coming out at the time. So, you know, by 2015 I'm like, Okay, I need to go. I got a wife, three kids. You know, the magazine is sort of just like on fumes. At this point. We've shut the office down, living back home, running it. And I was just like, Yo, I gotta, I gotta make a move here. Bro. I can't, like, I can't continue like this. So I just went to my two partners said, Listen, I'm gonna have to go and find another job. And I did as a copywriter for Black Enterprise magazine, you know, thinking, Okay, I'm gonna do wax buddies. I'm just gonna do a little part time job. Worst job I ever had. I was there 45 days. And then they came to me and said, we don't think this is working out. I was like, you know, I would have to agree with you, this is the worst fucking job I've ever had, and they didn't like me because I had run my own magazine now for over a decade. So I'm looking at what they're doing. And, you know, I became cool with like, the creative director, but I was only hired as a copywriter, so I had some woman who was by but again, I've been an editor in chief for a decade, so I'm copywriting, but I'm like doing this shit in my sleep. So as I finish, I'm walking around and I'm, you know, the guy who was the creative director had gone to my college. We weren't friends, but we were alumni. To get, you know. So we got cool with talking. So he'd be working on the new issue, and he'd put the cover up on the wall, and I'd come over and we'd be chatting about it, and then my boss would see me talking with the head creative director about the direction of the well, that's not your job, and you're supposed to copy edit. And, you know, I would copy edit circles around her, you know? But again, I'm like, okay, cool. I'm gonna play the role of the little copy editor guy, and we'll get too much into me, but she could not handle it. It was just like she had been there for like, 10 years, and this was her copy editing job, and she was gonna keep all her copy editors, and I'm like, I'm not the one. So they were like, hey, and that's when I was like, You know what? Maybe, maybe I can't do this, like, one foot in, one foot out thing where I'm, like, working on the magazine and trying to get a part time job, like, I just need to go get a job, job. And so that's where I really started looking at, like, the intersection of music and tech. Because, again, all of this was caused by tech, the internet, all this, I'm like, Well, shit, I need to get in on that. So that's what I started looking my boy was at Apple. I had a couple interviews with them. On the editorial side. I had an intern who was at, well, former intern slash writer who was now at Instagram, I hit him up like, bro, so your Instagram. He got me in a couple interviews with with a role he was in on the music side. You know, got a couple interviews in. Didn't work. Dan camp, my man, Andrew Jervis, had just sort of taken a little before, like an editor in chief, that was just as they were starting to do content over there, I don't, yeah, it didn't work out. You know, we had a couple conversations, and, man, I wound up a genius, which, you know, formerly Rap Genius. They were just bringing in all of, like the editorial guys, like one of the guys who had written for me at scratch magazine, which I mentioned I kind of watched while I was doing wax poetics for Harris publications. Rob had written for me a couple of times there, so now he's there JFK. And you know, eventually, all these people from complex Brendan, Frederick, Lauren nostro, and so, yeah, I was chilling at genius. I was like, this is perfect, because, like, I was running the kind of, like, behind the lyrics pop up video thing that they were kind of doing on Spotify, and I ran a team of editors, and, you know, was still able to do storytelling around music, which is what I realized my real love and passion is. But, um, it was a new form, you know, and it was a new group of kids like, you know, I'm dealing with a bunch of old men. God bless our souls. At wax poetics, I'm in here at genius. These kids are coming right out of college, like, so I'm looking at how they're consuming music, and what they're listening to, and how they're listening to it. And I'm, you know, seeing some of these kids buying records, but they're not even opening the record. They're putting the record up on their desk, and it's still sealed, and it's like, merch, like, it's, wow, this is interesting. They're streaming everything. And so that was 2016 and I thought I was going to stay there forever, really, I mean, I was like, Oh, this place is great. I was like, close by ride my bike to work. My kids school was close. My wife's was a private chef for, like, a private school, and so her job was maybe 10 minutes away. Was just ideal. And then I got a call from Universal, and it was really Elvis Mitchell, who had been on his show, and we kind of, you know, stayed cool. He come in New York, and we'd have, uh, cigars, a couple drinks. And so he called me as like his now wife was working at Universal, still is, I believe. And said, yeah, they got a role. You think maybe Audrey would be interested in it. So he hit me up, and it turned out to be this, like vice president of urban catalog at Universal, which basically, you know, I didn't even really know what all this catalog stuff meant, but essentially, was just like old music. So I'm like, oh okay, that's right up my alley. And it was urban. So it was everything from like, hip hop to James Brown. I'm like, oh shit, let's go. So went in, had a couple combos, and then yeah, eventually, yeah, they brought me in and I moved out to LA. That's really how my LA journey started in the end of at 2016 top of 2017 I started like, literally january 3, but we moved out here a couple weeks prior. So, yeah, that was really my entree to the actual music industry, which, you know, to be honest, I never thought I would ever be a part of. I just was the media guy in the magazine, and I didn't really know what the hell they really did at these labels, because for me, they just seemed useless most of the time. I was like, Y'all don't know what records to put out. Y'all don't have the photos I need. It's like, what good are you? So

Adam Gow: 1:10:33

what was it like going from, say, like the running a magazine, if we if we kind of ignore the sort of bits in between to then going into, like a huge corporation, like universal,

Andre Torres: 1:10:47

Oh God, it's painful. Painful is all I can say. I mean, you know, it's, it's one thing to come into these buildings with, you know, bright eyed and bushy tailed and ready to, kind of like, go get it, make do something incredible. Because, you know, when I got the offer, you know, I was like, Man, do I want to go work for record label, big record label. And again, you know, we had been looking to get out of New York, and so this was an opportunity to move to LA and again, you know, more money than I had ever been offered in my life. So it was like, okay, but once you get in there, you know, you start to understand a lot of the preconceptions that you had or what you had heard about, were actually true. You know, there were a lot of people there who didn't give a shit. There were a lot of decisions that were made purely by lawyers and business affairs people. Now, I had spoken to someone yesterday, and she asked about a dirty little secret in the industry, and mine was that there are people. Because she was like, sometimes dirty little secret is good. My dirty little secret that was good is that there are some people inside these buildings who are still passionate about music. The sad part is, most of the time, their voices get drowned out, or they've worked there long enough that they've been beaten down and hard and to a point where they don't care anymore. So I think the real challenge in those spaces is a I'm realized I'm an entrepreneur at heart, so I think it was hard for me to and still is to a degree, I've had to kind of switch my brain a little bit in order to kind of make it work in those spaces. Because you can't really date to entrepreneurial in these corporate spaces a most of the people have only worked in these corporate spaces their whole lives, so they're not entrepreneurial thinkers, you know? I think I just was always, especially even coming out of making art, I would just find shit and turn it into art. So I take paintings out of the garbage can and buy paint from the goddamn paint store that, like they mixed up the wrong color for somebody, sell it for $2 I can't give you that. I'll take it, you know, and so I'm used to, you know, flipping it, you know, take something and turn it into something. That's not how those people think there they are safe. They don't want to rock the boat and they want to, you know, I think take the easy, comfortable way. If they come against challenges, most of them throw their R's up and say, Well, I get we can't do it, you know, I'm like, Oh, we're gonna get this done and we're gonna figure out how, that's how my brain works. Theirs is like, Oh, it can't work. Shut it down. And because they've got 90 other things on their desk they have to deal with. I don't want to have to worry about this. It's too much trouble if I got to use my brain to think to my like, everything needs to be easy and just automated. So the minute you come in there, like, Hey, I got this idea about Roy Azar like, I mean, of course, especially if it's Roy Ayers. Like, you know, if I had come in and said, I got this idea about Kanye West, and they look at the revenue that's coming out of Kanye West, okay, what do you gotta say? You know? Because all they care about is what makes money. And you know, at this point, Roy Ayers is not at the top of that list for them. And so that's what you start to understand. It doesn't matter about cultural relevance or any of that you know, when it comes to these labels, it's a business, and that's the hard part, I think, for people to swallow, especially now that they're mostly owned by. They, you know, they're public companies, so they're shareholders, they have to answer to and everything is about quarterly growth. And so by any means necessary, I think, is the way they see it. And so I would say 90% of the music just sits there, you know, there's no one touching it. There's no one going to touch it, because it just does what it does. And then the other 10% that drives all the revenue, they'll spend all their time on, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Fleetwood, Mac, whatever it is

Adam Gow: 1:15:36

that must be so frustrating when you're someone who knows what an incredible archive there is there,

Andre Torres: 1:15:43

yeah, it was, yeah, you're 100% correct, you know. And I tried to dig in and show them my opportunities and that, but it's hard, you know, trying to teach a large company like that how culture works down here. Their idea is that culture dribbles down from them. We signed the artist, we put the press release out, we put up on the Jimmy Fallon show, and now everybody has to come and look up here, and I'm like, No, that's not how it works. Real artists start down here, they get a following, they bubble up, and then the fans, and now the Internet has sort of like solidified this. The fans respond, and then eventually y'all come into the picture when you think it's going to be big enough, like you're not down here, finding out what works in culture and what does it understanding all of that, even your ANRs, at this point are just looking at SoundCloud numbers, and it's all algorithm streams like you know, it's all number quantify. Most of these guys don't have any capacity for culture. I was in conversations at record labels where I was like, shocked to hear people running major labels saying, we're not in the culture business. That's not what we do. And I'm like, what you try to tell that to your artists. These guys are out here busting their ass trying to come up with something that speaks to the culture that speaks to our moment and time here as people on this planet, or you in this certain neighborhood on this planet at this point, and you got to tell them, sorry, we're not in the business of culture. I mean, I think all of your artists would tell you, great, that I'm going to go get a deal somewhere where they do prioritize that, but this is the way that these people, and I'm talking to people who've been there running labels for 2030, years, and I was shocked to say, to think, like, Damn y'all don't understand the connection that you have, that these artists are driving culture with these songs, like you don't understand Your role in this. So that's when you start to realize, like, their priorities are completely different. They're just completely beholden to shareholders at this point. And it's just like, just make sure that we hit our number. And that becomes the mantra every year. And it's like, by by any means necessary, you know, put out 10 box sets or whatever it is you need to do in order to hit that number, and we're good, and no one's gonna say anything. And you keep on, keeping on, it's when I go in there and go, yo, I want to put a Marvel project together, or I wanted, and then the lawyers have to, like, we've never done anything like this. And then they have to work and do things they've never done before, and then, you know, you're just trying things. Not everything is gonna you're not gonna knock it all out of the park. You're trying to experiment and show them, but they don't want experiments. They just want you to come in and do the same thing that the last guy did. Because we know that that works. So, yeah, you know, you quickly realize, I guess it's not even worth trying. You know, you come up with an idea, yeah. And then you start to realize, oh, this is how that guy wound up like this. Because he probably was excited at one point too. But now, when you go to him and say, Yo got this idea, that he goes, Well, that's because 10 years ago, he was me. He was excited, too. And then now he's burned the fuck out, and now he just comes in and clocks in and out and just does the work, goes home and whatever. And you know, that was not why I got into this industry.

Adam Gow: 1:19:33

How long did you last then? Because you've left now, haven't you? Yeah, I

Andre Torres: 1:19:37

mean, I got laid off in October, so I was probably, you know, like, three and a half years that at Universal, a little over a year at Spotify, and then back to the labels at Warner for another two years. So, you know, about seven i. Years. And, you know, I I can't say I will never go back. I mean, I don't think there's any getting out of this industry, kind of once you're in and unless you completely divorce yourself and go into a completely different career. But I love music. I'm not going to let these corporations chase me out of something I'm passionate about, but whether or not I would work for a another major label or for a like large tech company that deals with music, that's probably highly unlikely I'm not necessarily looking to start my own venture either I've been like down that road, but somewhere in the middle is probably where I'll wind up, somewhere where I'm allowed a little bit more creative freedom, and I could take some risks more than I can at the label. But again, I'm not looking to, you know, struggle pay my rent, as I may have, you know, 20 years ago, when I was starting my own venture. So somewhere in the middle there where I can be creative. But excuse me, there's still some structure, some stability, and so yeah, I'm kind of consulting and dipping my toe and hands in a couple different cooking jars at this point. Have

Adam Gow: 1:21:34

you had anything to do with the reboot of wax poetics? Then, yeah,

Andre Torres: 1:21:38

to some degree. I mean, you know, we still do own parts of that company. We kind of did, like a licensed deal with the guys, and yeah, we have quarterly meetings with them, you know, they're in a little bit of a relaunch phase right now too, and so I'm not sure how much of that has been revealed publicly, but probably be hearing more about that soon, and we probably reconnected maybe a month ago to talk more about, like, what that looks like, and how I'll probably be coming back on to get a little bit even more involved than I have been in the past. So, yeah, I'm still riding for those guys. I still love the brand. You know, they send me copies, and I still read it. So, you know, yeah, it's still my baby, and I'm gonna keep riding as long as I said before, till the wheels fall off. So, yeah, we got some things we're cooking up with them, and should be some announcements coming soon.

Adam Gow: 1:22:45

Can't wait to hear about that. This has been such an enjoyable conversation, right

Andre Torres: 1:22:49

on, man, I appreciate it's been good to reminisce and go back down memory lane. So thanks for the opportunity, amazing.

Adam Gow: 1:22:57

Where can people find you? On socials? Got beats one

Andre Torres: 1:23:01

of the first Instagram accounts, I guess, because every time I tell people like, how the hell did you get that name? So got beats at Instagram, got beats on Twitter. You know, I'm not the most active, but, you know, occasionally I pop up, and I've been making a lot of art recently, so I've been throwing a couple of those things on there. So yeah, I've got some news coming probably in the next few months too. So I'll keep you updated on that as

Adam Gow: 1:23:33

well. Brilliant. And one more question, were you never tempted? Because I know I sort of said to you before, were you ever sort of heavy into DJing? I said it was just odd bits and bobs. Was it never for you? The DJ inside of it? You know,

Andre Torres: 1:23:47

I love the sort of like process of, like, picking out records and going in and playing records for people and seeing their reaction and, you know, like I said, I think I used to do like, house parties. My guy had like, a big loft in Williamsburg at like, the mid 90s. So we would, he would throw these big parties, and I would just bring records of DJ I didn't realize, you know, at the time, these parties were actually becoming, like, pretty big. There were like, hundreds of people. It was a big loft, and, you know, I would play weird shit, like, you know, Serge Gainsbourg and all these art kids and Williamsburg, oh, my god, they'd lose their mind and shit. So I realized, okay, I was probably a little bit ahead of the curve when it came to, kind of like what that evolved into, where those all became like proper bars and clubs and, you know, people started getting, like regular gigs to play weird stuff like that in Williamsburg and Brooklyn. So I never considered myself to be like. A great DJ. I might be able to pull some records and put on but I don't have any technical skills. I don't really know how to like, beat, match or, you know, so when I look at some guys, I do know who consider themselves DJs, and I look at what they can do and their skill set, I'm like, yo. I would never call myself a DJ when I'm around guys like that. Hell no. Same with writing. I think, as I mentioned earlier, you know, it's like I could put together an article, but I know some dudes who can turn a phrase and and just write such beautifully constructed sentences and paragraph and paragraphs that I'm like, Yeah, I would never consider myself a writer so or a journalist in that, in that respect. So, yeah, you know the DJ thing, I still, I got my turntables over here. I get down a little in the crib and put some records on. The family loves my selection for the most part. But, uh, yeah, outside of the house, you'd be hard pressed to find me, uh, spinning records in public, especially nowadays. Man, these kids with their they got all kinds of technology. I'm old school with it. Just put a record on and let it let it ride. So, yeah,

Adam Gow: 1:26:19

great. Thanks ever so much for your time today. Man, hopefully Speak to you soon.

Andre Torres: 1:26:24

I look forward to it. Thank you. Adam, talk soon. Man, you.