Episode 70

DJ Angelo - Spin cycles

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This week, we delve into the remarkable journey of DJ Angelo, a luminary in the realm of turntablism, whose ascent from a modest beginning to becoming a highly respected figure in the DJ community serves as an inspiration to many. Having cultivated a friendship spanning two decades, I have had the privilege to witness Angelo's evolution not only as a turntablist but also as a creative director, shaping the landscape of DJing itself. Throughout our conversation, we traverse the tapestry of his early influences, the pivotal moments that ignited his passion for music, and the profound impact of community on his artistic development. Angelo's narrative is replete with insights into the relentless pursuit of excellence and the importance of adaptability in a rapidly changing industry. Join us as we explore the multifaceted dimensions of his career, punctuated by anecdotes that illuminate the challenges and triumphs that have defined his path.

This week I’m honoured to be joined by one of my oldest friends in DJing, DJ Angelo. 

Very poignant that this comes out straight after DMC Weekend, given that he’s probably played a significant role in a lot of competitors learning their craft. Before terms like influencer existed, Angelo gained mass exposure through his YouTube tutorial videos, and has continued to contribute a lot to the scene as a performer, ambassador, competitor, tech advisor and more.

In this episode we go right back to his roots, looking at the many different ways Angelo’s developed artistically and professionally, and we find out what keeps him growing, and how he feels about 25 years in the game.

Transcript
Speaker A:

Welcome back to once a DJ.

Speaker A:

I'm honored to have with me a man who 20 years ago would be sat on his sofa drinking cups of tea, having deep and meaningful chats, watching DMC videos of craze Kentaro, people like that.

Speaker A:

And then fast forward 20 years, he knows that, he knows what it's like.

Speaker A:

So it's my honour to have with me DJ Angelo.

Speaker A:

How you doing today?

Speaker B:

I'm good, mate.

Speaker B:

Good to see you.

Speaker B:

It's been a while.

Speaker A:

Just for a bit of context then, can you talk about when we first met and where you were at in your turntableist and DJ journey?

Speaker B:

Yeah, about 20 years ago, we met each other in my hometown of Derby in England, which is a small city in the Midlands, the centre of England, so it's neither in the north or the south, it's not a major city.

Speaker B:

But for some reason it was a breeding ground for hip hop kids and we were part of that movement and we had a whole family of breakers, DJs, MCs, graffiti artists, beatboxes, and we put on events.

Speaker B:

Shout out to Beatmaster, Trinity Warriors, Mr. Crow and everyone.

Speaker B:

It was an amazing way to come of age because we just all knew each other and you could go anywhere in Derby, you'll meet someone you knew.

Speaker B:

And I think we met at one of these hip hop events that I was playing at.

Speaker A:

Perhaps probably a homegrown.

Speaker B:

Yeah, could have been homegrown or could have been ill behavior.

Speaker B:

These were the nights we used to put on.

Speaker B:

And I think I remember you approaching me one day and saying that you also scratched.

Speaker B:

And when I hear people say that, I don't always expect too much, but when I finally did get around to scratch with you, I was pretty impressed with your style.

Speaker B:

You were really funky and you had some crazy fast stabs.

Speaker B:

You had a whole different flow to anyone else.

Speaker B:

Very kind of unpredictable and jazzy.

Speaker A:

You're the only person where I would have sustained jam sessions and we'd be working things out.

Speaker A:

I remember when we were trying to work out swung flares and things like that, just trying to get on those, like the Autobahns and all this stuff that when, like scratch, a Peda Britannica or whatever it was called, came out and just trying to get on top of it.

Speaker A:

But I think in that period when all the Euro guys came in, the techniques just got so complex so quickly.

Speaker B:

Well, you, you definitely had the funk.

Speaker B:

And I learned quite a lot from you, namely the musicality of making scratching sound similar to the syncopation of any other instrument.

Speaker B:

And I never thought about it in that way until you said it.

Speaker B:

I think you played a track that had a guitar solo and you were trying to explain to me, listen to where he's placing the notes.

Speaker B:

That can be where you place your scratches.

Speaker B:

Because until that point, I was just trying to execute techniques, not necessarily think of them as notes that could be layered at various different points over a beat.

Speaker B:

So, yeah, I have to credit you for that.

Speaker A:

Oh, thank you.

Speaker A:

I'll take it.

Speaker B:

But, yeah, I learned so much from all the guys back in the day.

Speaker B:

You know, Woody used to pass through our city, DJ Noise, and it was a great time.

Speaker B:

It was a real family feel in the culture back then.

Speaker A:

So as with the show, really, generally, it's just a case of starting off with sort of understanding how you got into music, because I think it'll be a bit different to what people will know of you, your sort of journey through DJing.

Speaker A:

So if you want to kind of tell us how you first got into it.

Speaker B:

I've loved music for as long as I've been alive.

Speaker B:

My parents were big music fans and we always had vinyl at home.

Speaker B:

So I understood the process of, like, playing records and kind of collecting music I loved.

Speaker B:

And that's what I did naturally, as I was growing up.

Speaker B:

And my parents would also play instruments like keyboard and guitar, and I tried those.

Speaker B:

I was looking for some kind of musical outlet myself, I believe.

Speaker B:

And nothing really clicked until I discovered what DJing was.

Speaker B:

And it was something about that culture that really connected with me because I was able to manipulate the music I loved as well.

Speaker B:

So when I discovered DJing, that was in the mid-90s when I started to discover mixtapes.

Speaker B:

And I was always really confused about how the songs were continuous.

Speaker B:

You know, this was pre YouTube, so there was no reference for me, especially from where we're from.

Speaker B:

Small city.

Speaker B:

There was no DJ schools that I knew of.

Speaker B:

So I just went on this mission to try and find out what is going on.

Speaker B:

Like, I love this music, but there's no gaps between the songs.

Speaker B:

They were just blending into each other.

Speaker B:

But I knew the DJs were involved somehow.

Speaker B:

And it wasn't until I bought the DMC VHS tape.

Speaker B:

So you want to be a DJ from a disco store in our hometown?

Speaker B:

And that's when I realized it's about syncing two records at the same time, overlapping them.

Speaker B:

Once I understood that, I just had to try it.

Speaker B:

Like, back then, I didn't know if I would be any good or whether it would lead anywhere.

Speaker A:

So the thing that People may well not know is that you used to mix house quite a bit, didn't you?

Speaker B:

Like, at first, yeah, Trance and all kinds of electronic stuff.

Speaker B:

Because that was my entry into DJing.

Speaker B:

I didn't even fathom that you could DJ other music at that time.

Speaker B:

In the mid-90s, club culture was huge.

Speaker B:

The early stages, I would say, of the superstar DJs.

Speaker B:

So I would buy these cassette packs from the likes of Tall Paul and Paul Oakenfold.

Speaker B:

So that's what I did.

Speaker B:

I followed in those footsteps.

Speaker B:

I would listen to Radio 1 on a Sunday night to the Essential Mix, and I would try to, like, find the names of songs and then go and buy those records myself.

Speaker B:

So that's it.

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

I started DJing with electronic music first purely out of ignorance and lack of reference to any other style of DJing.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Speaker A:

So on the DMC video, was that teaching you more about turntablism then?

Speaker B:

It covered a range of things.

Speaker B:

It covered how to beat Match and then cutmaster Swift had this section where he explained how to sticker up vinyl for battles.

Speaker B:

And that's when I first discovered the DMC competition.

Speaker B:

uy my first DMC VHS tape, the:

Speaker B:

So it was just a case of, like, following this trail and getting deeper into the art form that I eventually fell in love with and changed my life.

Speaker A:

How quickly did you start learning body tricks then, if you.

Speaker A:

95 was Rock Raider, wasn't it?

Speaker B:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B:

I mean, I felt late to the art form back then because the level was already so crazy high in 95, and I didn't think I would ever be able to catch up to that.

Speaker B:

I probably still haven't, but I wanted to try it out.

Speaker B:

I wanted to just get into it somehow, join the culture in my own small way.

Speaker B:

It was an amazing period of discovery.

Speaker A:

When did you start DJing out?

Speaker B:

I think my first ever public gig was when I was around 17, I think.

Speaker B:

One of the local towns.

Speaker B:

Matlock.

Speaker B:

Small gig, small club.

Speaker B:

And then when I went to University at 18 years old, I took my decks with me and that led to gigs here and there, some residencies in the student union.

Speaker B:

I met a good friend out there.

Speaker A:

Who?

Speaker B:

Me and him teamed up as a duo, Scratch and Sniff.

Speaker B:

And we hosted our own.

Speaker A:

Who did the scratching?

Speaker A:

Who did the sniffing?

Speaker B:

What do you think?

Speaker B:

So, yeah, we did our own night at the student union.

Speaker B:

You know, we only ever pulled about 20 people to our nights, but we didn't care, you know, it was fun.

Speaker B:

I was playing all kinds of stuff like trance and UK garage and whatever else.

Speaker A:

The first time I saw you DJing, it was a DJ battle.

Speaker A:

Yoda was judging and I think you were the only guy doing turntabilism and I was blown away.

Speaker A:

was your first battle, was it:

Speaker A:

2002.

Speaker B:

I think the first battle I did was at university, the Vestax Student DJ competition.

Speaker B:

But then this one that you're talking about is probably the first one that I won in my life.

Speaker B:

I remember getting £500 cash.

Speaker B:

Yoda was judging and I think that was the early stages of me getting a bit of a name in the.

Speaker A:

City in terms of hip hop and turntableism.

Speaker A:

You were kind of head and shoulders above everyone.

Speaker A:

Did it bring many opportunities?

Speaker B:

I think my name spread after that battle and after I started to make mix CDs and I would just give them out to people.

Speaker B:

And I remember passing one to our mutual friend Hudson.

Speaker B:

It got to J Squared and these guys ran the hip hop night in our city called off the Hook and he really liked the mix I made and booked me for my kind of first professional gig.

Speaker B:

And I closed out one of their nights, all vinyl.

Speaker B:

And that was probably when I started to think that I could get into this and do more of this professionally.

Speaker A:

When, in this order, then, did the Gemini competitions come?

Speaker B:

The Gemini battle was:

Speaker B:

It was for any kind of dj.

Speaker B:

Most people came with just mixed records.

Speaker B:

So obviously I stood out quite a lot with the way I played, but I didn't expect to win that one at all.

Speaker B:

I think I put the set together the day before, went down to London and then I kept getting through the rounds and then ended up in the final and almost had a panic attack performing on stage because I'd never done anything like that.

Speaker B:

I never felt that pressure in my life.

Speaker B:

I remember that feeling so well that my heart pounding, feeling like I was going to throw up from the nerves.

Speaker B:

But somehow I held it together and I won that.

Speaker B:

So that was:

Speaker B:

So I was young and naive and I thought that meant a lot like winning this small time competition.

Speaker B:

And I remember thinking I was the man.

Speaker B:

It got to my ego a little bit and I was ready to kick some ass again the following year.

Speaker B:

And I prepared a set and I was like, yeah, I'm going to crush this, I'm going to crush this.

Speaker B:

And on the way down, I was driving down to London in the rain.

Speaker B:

And I turned a corner and I crashed my car into a lamppost.

Speaker B:

Completely wrote my car off close to my home, luckily.

Speaker B:

But I was just driving like, yeah, I'm gonna go kick some ass.

Speaker B:

And I wasn't really being careful, so I smashed my car.

Speaker B:

Had to get that taken away.

Speaker B:

And then I called one of my friends, my university friends, and asked if he would mind driving me from Leeds to, through Derby, pick me up into London.

Speaker B:

And he did, bless him.

Speaker B:

So I was already, like, messed up, my head, wasn't in the game and I went there and I was thinking, all right, let me just win this.

Speaker B:

At least I can have a bit of a happy ending to this day.

Speaker B:

But for some reason, when I tried to compete, all of my stickers on my vinyl had moved.

Speaker B:

Had like moved one groove.

Speaker B:

So every time I tried to cue anything up, it was completely in the wrong place.

Speaker B:

And I flopped so hard that day, like, it was one of the worst days of my life back then because I flopped in front of everyone.

Speaker B:

Like there were people there who remembered me from the year before.

Speaker B:

And I invited friends to come and watch me crush it again.

Speaker B:

And I completely choked.

Speaker B:

So I got third that year and had a smashed up car to deal with when I got home.

Speaker B:

Brought me back down to earth, humbled myself.

Speaker B:

And then I went again the following year and won the title back.

Speaker B:

There is only one winner.

Speaker A:

He's standing up there, this year's champion, DJ Angelo.

Speaker B:

So not huge in terms of prestige, but these little national competitions just gave me that bit of confidence to believe that maybe in time, with hard work, I might be able to become something special like this.

Speaker A:

Yeah, I mean, you know, still coming third, that's, that's, you know, pretty good.

Speaker A:

And that is, I think, anything like that, when you're the person that's experiencing it, it's a big deal.

Speaker B:

Yeah, it was at the time I was.

Speaker B:

I was young and I wasn't ready for DMC level, but I was just hungry to apply myself in any way I could.

Speaker B:

I was looking for any opportunity I could.

Speaker A:

Which was your first year you did dmc?

Speaker B:

I think it was the year after I won the title back, or it might have even been the same year.

Speaker A:

2005, maybe that's when I first sort of spent any time with you.

Speaker A:

Because I entered that.

Speaker A:

I put together like a terrible three minutes.

Speaker A:

I think I might have had five minutes and went there and I was quite possibly the worst person there.

Speaker A:

I didn't realize just what you have to put yourself through and the level of sacrifice that's involved.

Speaker A:

You're in the big leagues, aren't you, when you're doing dmc?

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

A lot of people might not realize, but the DMCs back then, the Midlands heat, which is where we entered, was always packed with so many people coming from the north, the south and the Midlands because you could enter two heats to qualify to get to the UK final.

Speaker B:

So a lot of people did their hometown and then a lot of people went to another city.

Speaker B:

And because we were in the middle of England, so many came to us.

Speaker A:

Wasn't it one of the last ones as well?

Speaker B:

Yeah, I think so.

Speaker B:

So even to qualify for the final eight for the region, you had to beat like 40, 50 other people to get in the top eight, which I did.

Speaker B:

I just got in.

Speaker B:

I was positioned last, so I was on first on the night.

Speaker B:

And I just remember knowing I'm nowhere near good enough to win.

Speaker B:

And I made the most of the skills I had.

Speaker B:

And I didn't really have any deep record collections back then.

Speaker B:

I was juggling Billie Jean, for God's sakes.

Speaker B:

You know, there wasn't much originality, but I was just happy that I. I qualified for a regional final, not even a UK final.

Speaker A:

It was a crazy time because I think I entered the next year, but actually practiced.

Speaker A:

And in the end I got into the finals, but just by default because there was only about eight people that turned up.

Speaker A:

I remember we were driving down there, one of my mates just constantly like, smoking.

Speaker A:

I'm just like, oh, didn't do anything for my kind of like mental condition.

Speaker A:

And we got down there and like, it turned out it's like, oh, yeah, you just threw to the final because there's not enough people to need to do the heats.

Speaker A:

It was such a.

Speaker A:

I think, literally from like:

Speaker A:

It was the real sort of change time for it, I think.

Speaker A:

What else was going on for you with DJing then?

Speaker B:

ing at an Internet bank until:

Speaker B:

And also I'd started dipping my toe into teaching, doing workshops, but still, I didn't really believe I could make it as a DJ full time until I had to try and make it work when I quit that job.

Speaker B:

d out of the job in September:

Speaker B:

Let's see, let's see what you're made of.

Speaker B:

That's a career I don't want to go back to.

Speaker B:

I've Got nothing to lose now.

Speaker A:

We used to have these chats where you were just like, you just weren't quite pulling the trigger.

Speaker A:

I never pulled the trigger, but you did.

Speaker A:

And I know you had some family stuff that went on because I guess that sort of experience is going to make you think about life and legacy and things like that.

Speaker A:

Did that give you sort of any impetus to.

Speaker A:

To do it?

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

Losing a parent is going to change your outlook on life, period, not just career.

Speaker B:

So I lost my dad in:

Speaker B:

I heard that he'd passed away.

Speaker B:

I was playing in Bolton, up near Manchester, and my sister was calling me on my mobile at 2am, which I thought was weird.

Speaker B:

And immediately I thought, this is going to be bad news, isn't it?

Speaker B:

So I got the resident to take over.

Speaker B:

I went in the back room and she just said, ang, dad's dead.

Speaker B:

And that's, that's what I mean.

Speaker B:

Like, I was doing.

Speaker B:

I was doing something I loved at the time.

Speaker B:

And, yeah, like when you hear something like that, it's.

Speaker B:

There's nothing that prepares you for that.

Speaker B:

You can't process that because it's the weirdest thing to.

Speaker B:

To.

Speaker B:

To literally have been with someone a day before and then the next day they're no longer there, like physically, they're just not around anymore.

Speaker B:

That is the weirdest thing.

Speaker B:

But by then I'd already learned all the great qualities from him about work ethic and just earning your way and making a difference and not expecting handouts.

Speaker B:

And I had a really good relationship with him and I'm also grateful that he passed peacefully in his sleep.

Speaker B:

So there's a lot of things that, you know, I. I'm grateful for.

Speaker B:

I'm grateful that I had a great dad.

Speaker B:

I'm grateful that he didn't suffer.

Speaker B:

But the sudden, the suddenness of it all, it's.

Speaker B:

It's crazy to.

Speaker B:

To have someone and then the next day they're gone.

Speaker B:

So I guess I go extra hard to honour him and the, the struggle he went through to get us from Burma to England and put us all through university and stuff.

Speaker B:

So in my eyes, I have no excuse to be a failure in any way.

Speaker A:

Anyone who knows you knows just how hard you work and have worked all the way through.

Speaker A:

You're one of the hardest workers I know.

Speaker A:

I've seen how hard you've worked.

Speaker B:

I mean, I work hard, but I'm built for it.

Speaker B:

So I don't, I don't complain and hard work pays off.

Speaker A:

Speaking of which, then you mentioned about you started doing the workshops and the tutorials and things.

Speaker A:

You were quite sharp on your merch game as well, weren't you?

Speaker A:

That was always a thing that was in your head.

Speaker A:

Can you sort of add anything about your process with that sort of thing?

Speaker A:

Because you were always getting little things done and like getting your flash website done by your mate and stuff like that, you know, there was always something more you were putting into it.

Speaker B:

When I choose to do something, I go all in.

Speaker B:

I'm an all or nothing guy.

Speaker B:

So I chose DJing.

Speaker B:

So I just basically tried very various different avenues, one of them being merch.

Speaker B:

But the merch really sold off the back of me building a name on YouTube.

Speaker B:

And that came from me doing the educational stuff, all the workshops and.

Speaker A:

Yeah, so I think I've probably got.

Speaker A:

Got that stuff the wrong way around then because I remember you just starting to do the videos on YouTube.

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker A:

And that was kind of the genesis of the next chapter, right?

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

And it is about chapters.

Speaker B:

My DJ career has been very much about different chapters and very distinct pivots.

Speaker B:

And that's all by design.

Speaker B:

Like I think a lot of DJs stick at this one thing and they scale that one thing.

Speaker B:

Whereas for me I've always had broad interest and I've always followed whatever's excited me at any given moment.

Speaker B:

And sometimes that thing I'm into might last a year or five years or whatever, but I always have a good sense of when it's time to move on to the next thing when.

Speaker B:

When I've overstayed something, you know what I mean?

Speaker A:

Yeah, so.

Speaker A:

So if I recall correctly, at one point you would a lot of your DJing out and stuff, like you were doing well out of it, getting loads of gigs.

Speaker A:

But it was a lot of like very sort of R and B club sort of stuff, wasn't it?

Speaker A:

For a while, yeah.

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

So the teaching actually happened because I hadn't quite made it to live off gigs.

Speaker B:

So I met the founder of Pedestrian, Jim Willis.

Speaker B:

And Pedestrian is this non profit organization that would host turntableism workshops for the community around the uk.

Speaker B:

I met him at an event, he loved the show and he asked me if I could teach.

Speaker B:

And at that time I think I'd done maybe one workshop.

Speaker B:

But of course being someone looking for opportunities, I just said yes, what do you need?

Speaker B:

And I think the next week I was shadowing a tutor on my first ever turntablism workshop and that became a whole career on its own.

Speaker B:

So from that point, I then became one of the most in demand DJ tutors for government funded projects around the UK.

Speaker B:

And then it even went beyond just DJing.

Speaker B:

And I started to become like this community music project leader for bands and singers and stuff like that.

Speaker B:

So I feel like I've had so many careers in this one DJ career because that lasted maybe three years.

Speaker B:

And again it came to the point where I wasn't excited about it anymore.

Speaker B:

So I left that completely and then started to hustle again at just DJing.

Speaker B:

was out there at the time in:

Speaker B:

And that's no disrespect to Qbert do it yourself scratch tutorials, but I wanted to teach the world my way.

Speaker B:

So I just put those videos out there purely to gift people with this free education of this art form that I loved.

Speaker B:

And then from there I leveraged other things such as building a career as a touring DJ.

Speaker B:

And it eventually happened.

Speaker B:

And I think YouTube was the reason for me getting that initial attention again.

Speaker B:

When I fixate on one thing, I try to do it the best way I can.

Speaker B:

So I became one of the first DJ YouTubers, I guess, back then, before YouTubing was a thing, before videos were longer than 10 minutes and before the DJ content we have now.

Speaker B:

And I guess my goal from the very beginning was just to make a name for myself as someone in the DJ space who made a difference, you know, and that could mean whatever that can mean.

Speaker B:

Played the best shows or, you know, taught thousands of people to DJ or produce the best music.

Speaker B:

I just wanted to have made a difference in this art form.

Speaker B:

And that's been the goal since day one.

Speaker B:

And I'm still trying to fulfill that goal now.

Speaker B:

I've just been changing the delivery of that, the medium.

Speaker B:

So we started on YouTube, trying to inspire people to get into turntabilism and then try to be this international dj.

Speaker B:

And that's led into all the stuff I'm doing now, which is a whole nother level, a different scale of making a difference to this art form.

Speaker A:

So something else I remember then is that you organized like 30 day tour of Asia by yourself.

Speaker B:

A few times.

Speaker A:

Where do you start with that, man?

Speaker B:

I think the longest tour I put together myself was two months.

Speaker B:

I was on the Road for two months in Asia once.

Speaker B:

But yeah, I think this is the beauty of the Internet and social media and content because people will find you and you will discover an audience that you would never discover any other way.

Speaker B:

YouTube is the TV channel for the world.

Speaker B:

So it just was a case of the right people seeing me and wanting to invite me to play in their club.

Speaker A:

I remember when I talked to you after that first, you were saying that there was a lot of differences in like the living conditions and the things.

Speaker B:

That you saw big time.

Speaker A:

That, that must have been a really interesting experience.

Speaker A:

A real eye opener, man.

Speaker B:

Yeah, I wish I could remember every experience, but I've been to so many countries now and so many cities and so many towns and villages and people's homes.

Speaker B:

You know, people who invited me, took me for dinner, took me sightseeing.

Speaker B:

I've had so many amazing experiences and things that you just don't get to experience as a tourist.

Speaker B:

You get the fast track to the culture of that place when you have locals showing you around.

Speaker B:

And I've seen levels of poverty and felt guilty as well to be there, like getting paid to do this privileged profession.

Speaker B:

So it's eye opening for life, not just in your DJ career.

Speaker B:

Like traveling the world and seeing every kind of lifestyle is so good for your development as a person.

Speaker A:

Amazing.

Speaker A:

So when and how did the Reloop relationship start?

Speaker A:

Because you worked closely with them for quite a long time, didn't you?

Speaker A:

And probably I would guess were quite key in establishing them in the turntableist market.

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

So like I said to you, everything I've done has just connected to the next thing.

Speaker B:

ts at the BPM show in the NEC:

Speaker B:

So they were looking for local DJs to play on their booth.

Speaker B:

My name was suggested and I met them there and then that relationship is still running today.

Speaker B:

I still work with Reloop, I still advise them in kind of a creative consultancy kind of way nowadays and guide them in business and some product ideas.

Speaker B:

But back then that was the early stages of understanding how to work with partners and understand the business beyond just trying to get booked and play parties.

Speaker B:

And I did my first sponsored deal.

Speaker B:

You know, nowadays we have creators and influencers who brands pay to advertise products.

Speaker B:

I did that way back in:

Speaker B:

I have this YouTube channel.

Speaker B:

I'm getting X amount of views.

Speaker B:

How about I make the Next five videos with your products and you pay me X amount.

Speaker B:

And that's what I did.

Speaker B:

So I learned pretty early on that there's things you can do and leverage from your reach as a dj, beyond just trying to play more parties.

Speaker B:

And I try to teach other DJs to think bigger than just the craft and the club.

Speaker B:

Like, what else are you capable of?

Speaker A:

Was the relationship part of the move to Germany?

Speaker B:

They're not the reason I moved, but I had a closer relationship to Germany than most other European countries because I studied a bit of German at school and I'd been a few times and I'd worked with the Reloop a few times.

Speaker B:

So I always had this connection.

Speaker B:

And then, you know, at the time when I was getting itchy feet about living in England, Germany was high on the list.

Speaker B:

I think with all this touring that I mentioned and seeing the world and coming home changed every single time.

Speaker B:

I just looked at England differently and I just figured that if I'm always on the road anyway, my base could be also anywhere.

Speaker A:

You were doing quite a lot of bookings around, say, like, Eastern Europe and things like this.

Speaker A:

I remember you saying, like, sometimes you'd go to gigs and you'd have to suss out what music the crowd's into and stuff like that, because you're not known as this, like, for a specific, like, musical style, more as your presentation style, I guess.

Speaker A:

So what's it like going into somewhere because you play such a broad base of stuff?

Speaker A:

Are there any cues that you get in before you get in, or how are you working out as quickly as you can, what this crowd needs?

Speaker B:

I think before I take any gig, I look at who else has played there and that gives you an indication of the kind of artists and music they want.

Speaker B:

So that's one thing I do.

Speaker B:

And as I started to tour further afield into Asia, I would obviously ask the resident who booked me, like, what are the five big songs right now?

Speaker B:

Because it's a lot more type 1 society now and globalized.

Speaker B:

But when I started touring Asia, there was a lot of music from the west that wasn't breaking over there.

Speaker B:

So I had to play very differently in Asia than I would in Europe.

Speaker B:

So some inside knowledge from the locals is always useful, but not to the point where you sound exactly like them.

Speaker B:

Because I always try, always try to bring my style and try to bring an experience that justifies me flying, you know, 14 hours to play, two hours for.

Speaker B:

So it's.

Speaker B:

Research is key, but yeah, it's.

Speaker B:

It's A lot of work.

Speaker B:

And if you're a DJ like me, who's technical and wants to do something special with the music for every single tour or even every single night, that's a lot of work in preparation, which I think a lot of people don't realize.

Speaker A:

What about your performance style?

Speaker A:

Because you're quite a quiet, reflective person, but when you're up there in front of an audience, your, your presence is like, you look so comfortable up there and you just so confident and stuff.

Speaker A:

Like what went into that?

Speaker A:

I mean, I do remember I did a scratch battle in Nottingham and I remembered like I've always taken this advice and it applies to so many different things.

Speaker A:

You just like, just fake it till you make it.

Speaker A:

Pretend you're confident even though I'm there, my hands shaking like a dog when I'm trying to put the needle on the record.

Speaker A:

But after a bit you just, you pretend to be confident and then it gradually kind of, you just stop being unconfident.

Speaker B:

That's exactly the same case for me.

Speaker B:

There's no secrets.

Speaker B:

I'm not blessed with that confidence that some people have who are just, you know, born for the stage.

Speaker B:

I'm more of a reserved back of house guy than an on stage guy.

Speaker B:

But as fate would have it, pursuing this craft has, has thrust me on these stages and I've just had, I've just done the best I can.

Speaker B:

I do, I do exactly what you said.

Speaker B:

I, I fake being confident until I get to a point where, okay, I'm still alive, I haven't cleared the floor, things aren't that bad.

Speaker B:

And yeah, you have to give yourself this, this fake bravado I think, until it catches up with you.

Speaker B:

But yeah, the nerves never go away.

Speaker B:

Never go away.

Speaker B:

And if anything, I think I'm less confident as I get older, even though I'm more experienced now.

Speaker B:

I think there's a window where you're at your peak of confidence in your youth, where everything is new and exciting.

Speaker B:

But over time, even the best job in the world can start becoming mundane.

Speaker A:

I think there's a lot more opportunity to second guess yourself as well, the more that you do something.

Speaker B:

Yeah, that's true as well.

Speaker B:

I think when I was a very green international dj, I had less point of reference.

Speaker B:

I would just play my heart out with the stuff I believed in.

Speaker B:

And there's way more music now than there ever used to be.

Speaker B:

There's way more ways of performing and it's just really grown in, in all directions.

Speaker B:

But yeah, the, the confidence thing, I wasn't blessed with that, unfortunately.

Speaker A:

So just winding back to what we were saying about sitting on the sofa 20 years ago, watching the DMC vids.

Speaker A:

You're that guy now you're in that world.

Speaker A:

You know, you cut it up with Cuba and Craze and the people that we would just watch these videos of, even in the sort of early days of YouTube, finding any new footage of Cuba or D Styles and just going, how'd you get this good?

Speaker A:

How'd you get this good?

Speaker A:

You know, and then you're kind of, you know, you're in their world now.

Speaker A:

How.

Speaker A:

How was that when you were first around these guys and first cutting in front of them, what was that like?

Speaker B:

Surreal.

Speaker B:

They say that if you work hard enough, your role models become your peers.

Speaker B:

And I guess that's what's happened because I've met all of my heroes and I know them all, and it feels like a blessing.

Speaker B:

But at the same time, I wasn't trying to catch anyone up.

Speaker B:

I was just doing the best I could.

Speaker B:

I think that's the thing that I'm proud of the most in my DJ career is that I've done it my way.

Speaker B:

And I've never been the kind of doting fan trying to knock on their doors.

Speaker B:

I've just waited till people knew about me organically.

Speaker B:

And, yeah, yeah, I'm not trying to be like anyone.

Speaker B:

Like, I Admire so many DJs, but I stopped being a fan of many DJs.

Speaker B:

Not because I'm a hater anyway, but because I'm just so focused on doing me that I don't care about comparison and how well anyone else is doing.

Speaker B:

It's a personal mission that I'm on.

Speaker A:

Yeah, they've not done a skydive.

Speaker A:

Making a beat.

Speaker A:

You're making a beat.

Speaker A:

Oh, no.

Speaker A:

You were DJing, weren't you?

Speaker A:

Like, can you talk about that?

Speaker A:

Because that's a pretty mad concept.

Speaker B:

It's connected to my relationship with Algorithm, who I work with now.

Speaker B:

And I basically discovered their app, which was only available on the iPad back then.

Speaker B:

Now it's on the iPhone as well.

Speaker B:

But to me, like, being able to DJ with this device that was completely portable blew my mind.

Speaker B:

And I thought of the most extreme way of showing off that capability when I thought, hey, wait, no one's done this before, have they?

Speaker B:

Has anyone DJed in the air falling from the sky in the skydive?

Speaker B:

And they hadn't, so I just pitched to them, thinking they would say no, but they approved it.

Speaker B:

And then they.

Speaker B:

They commissioned me to do it.

Speaker B:

And I flew to Valencia and I booked two skydives and I took our mutual friend Jimmy Knott to film and had a GoPro on my head, GoPro on my chest, iPad strapped to my arm.

Speaker B:

The first jump, the cameras were pointing the wrong way, so that take was no good.

Speaker B:

So straight away I had to get back up and do the next one.

Speaker B:

And I don't know if anyone's done a skydive, but they wipe you out.

Speaker B:

They absolutely.

Speaker B:

Like once the adrenaline has left you, you just want to sleep.

Speaker B:

And that's how I felt after the first one.

Speaker B:

But I had to pick myself up and then get back on the plane and do the second jump.

Speaker B:

And I had one take to get it right.

Speaker B:

And that's probably why the video is not that good.

Speaker B:

And it didn't go as viral as I wanted to.

Speaker B:

But you live and learn.

Speaker A:

I think it's a concept, though.

Speaker A:

It's like.

Speaker A:

It is a really good demonstration of.

Speaker A:

This is where we are now at with DJ tech.

Speaker A:

These are the possibilities.

Speaker B:

I would like to say I was ahead of my time with that one.

Speaker B:

I think I've heard people say it like, that would probably work now better with the audience, but I think I've been early with a lot of things and sometimes people didn't get what I was trying to do.

Speaker B:

And that's fine.

Speaker B:

I don't mind being that guy.

Speaker B:

That's what excites me.

Speaker B:

I'm.

Speaker B:

I'm looking forwards all the time.

Speaker A:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A:

But again, like, this comes into another pivot, right?

Speaker A:

Because you're working with algorithm as a creative director.

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

I mean, my role is broad.

Speaker B:

You can't even really name my role, but I'm involved with improving the product, improving the brand artist relations.

Speaker B:

I'm involved with the UX design, the UI design, partnerships with other brands.

Speaker B:

I do the launches, I do presentations and keynotes on behalf of them at conferences and tech shows.

Speaker B:

I perform as an artist for them.

Speaker B:

I kind of wear so many hats and I think they're the most exciting thing happening in the DJ space right now.

Speaker B:

They asked me to help them launch their DVS expansion and from there it's been a crazy three years.

Speaker B:

There's always secret stuff I'm working on, which is exciting.

Speaker B:

To be the first one to do things.

Speaker A:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B:

In that space.

Speaker A:

Amazing.

Speaker A:

And so have you kind of like reined in the gig in now then?

Speaker B:

I'm not against playing in clubs and touring, but there's a couple of reasons why I don't do it as much now, yes, it's amazing to make a crowd go crazy and entertain them and have this shared experience, but it is that same thing every single time.

Speaker B:

And some people are happy to do that for the rest of their lives.

Speaker B:

But for me, who's more creative than just playing a two hour set on a night, I had to explore the avenues.

Speaker B:

So I take gigs when I'm excited about them.

Speaker B:

And the other reason why I don't DJ as much now is a lot of people don't know, but last year I got really sick and had vertigo for two months straight.

Speaker B:

I was like out of the blue, feeling dizzy and like falling over and needing to just instantly fall asleep.

Speaker B:

It was a horrible, horrible time of my life.

Speaker B:

But once that subsided, I've been left with tinnitus in my left ear.

Speaker B:

So my hearing is more of a concern than it used to be.

Speaker B:

I'm not trying to be in loud clubs as much as I used to because it's not a healthy lifestyle and I lived that for so long.

Speaker B:

Covid kind of came as a blessing to me to help me recalibrate and figure out what I am excited about now that I have breathing space.

Speaker B:

So it's not that I hate playing out, but I'm always going in the direction that excites me.

Speaker A:

Just rolling back a little bit.

Speaker A:

Then you won the DMC World Team Championships with jfb.

Speaker A:

What was that like going back to battling after what, 10, 15 years of not doing it and going into it with the sort of reputation that you have?

Speaker B:

Yeah, good question.

Speaker B:

I never thought I would ever battle again.

Speaker B:

I like I'm not competitive in that way.

Speaker B:

I'm competitive with myself and I just don't have it in me.

Speaker B:

But I always like the team format and I'm a big fan of the, the C2C guys, the musicality, the way they composed routines together between the four of them.

Speaker B:

Incredible.

Speaker B:

And that style of turntableism I really love the most, where it's fluid and it sounds good and it's entertaining for everyone, not just DJs.

Speaker B:

And the team competition came back to the DMCs and JFB asked me if I wanted to do it.

Speaker B:

And yeah, I agreed this one time.

Speaker B:

So my mindset going into that is we have to make this undeniable if we're going to do this.

Speaker B:

JFB is also an incredible turntable.

Speaker B:

Is who was due a world title for a long time anyway.

Speaker A:

How difficult is that going from solo battling, like doing something as a team?

Speaker B:

It's difficult because like you said, you're used to doing it a certain way.

Speaker B:

Both me and Jay are very solo kind of guys, and we're not the same dj.

Speaker B:

I think some people view turntablers as all the same, but we are very different artists, very different mindsets.

Speaker B:

And I think for the first week or so we were just butting heads about what we thought is the best direction.

Speaker B:

And it wasn't until we started to let go and kind of relinquish power, that's when it started to flow.

Speaker B:

So he realized that I was maybe better at the overview, the composition overall, and he was maybe better at embellishing on the moments.

Speaker B:

I think that's when things started to work.

Speaker B:

So you have to trust each other.

Speaker B:

You have to let ego go and decide what's best for the team.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Speaker A:

And you're doing something where there's a lot on the line.

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

And a deadline as well.

Speaker B:

Like I had to move in with him technically for a whole month, two weeks at a time.

Speaker B:

But I was living with him, so I wasn't in my comfort zone.

Speaker B:

He had this guy, this guest for a month with his girlfriend who he had to feed every day.

Speaker B:

And it was just, yeah, every day we wake up, go to the studio and we'd have writer's block some days.

Speaker B:

And yeah, it's.

Speaker B:

It's not an easy process at all.

Speaker A:

Worth it though.

Speaker B:

Thank God it worked out.

Speaker B:

And yeah, it didn't change my career or my life that much.

Speaker B:

But for me, it's like a little underline to be able to say, yeah, I'm in the history books to some level in this competition that I grew up watching.

Speaker B:

It's a personal thing to me.

Speaker A:

So do you think there's any chance that you'll kind of look back in a couple of years and pick up battling again?

Speaker B:

Very unlikely.

Speaker B:

And one reason is I. I got my world title and I'm not about a DJ by.

Speaker B:

By nature anyway, so I'm good.

Speaker B:

But the main reason I think I'm not interested in battling is because to battle you have to have a real sense of ego to compete at a high level.

Speaker B:

You have to want to win so hard.

Speaker B:

And I just don't have that ego anymore.

Speaker B:

Naturally.

Speaker B:

I'm so at peace with myself, not comparing to other people, completely happy doing my thing in my own lane.

Speaker B:

And the ego is a dangerous thing because you need a healthy amount of it to succeed in the world.

Speaker B:

Not just in DJ battles, but you need enough ego to give you the self belief to succeed.

Speaker B:

But too much of it, that can be a downfall.

Speaker B:

And I've experienced that.

Speaker B:

So I try to just sit in the middle constantly know what I'm, I'm worth, know what I can do, but not necessarily need to prove myself to other people.

Speaker A:

So given that we've established that you've, you know, you've kind of spent time around the sort of creme de la creme.

Speaker A:

When I spoke to Woody, he said the most impressive turntables me had ever seen was Plus One practicing, just warming up somewhere.

Speaker A:

What's been the most impressive thing that you've seen when you're like just jamming with people or whatever?

Speaker A:

Is there one person who, you've just gone like this, this.

Speaker A:

They're not human.

Speaker B:

Well, my boy, jfb, he is as good as you think he is.

Speaker B:

What you see in his videos is, is how good he is all the time.

Speaker B:

Like he, I rarely see him make mistakes and he always claims that he's always making mistakes.

Speaker B:

But the guy is like clockwork every time he's, he's so conditioned in the movements and the timing and, you know, he lives and breathes this art form more than anyone I know.

Speaker B:

And he's reached such a ridiculous level that it's easy for him.

Speaker B:

Now I don't find any of it easy.

Speaker B:

I never have.

Speaker B:

For me, to make a perfect set or perfect routine takes everything.

Speaker B:

It takes my, my full attention over a long, long time and nothing is natural for me.

Speaker B:

I can practice hard for this three minute routine that goes to video and I perform it once and then two weeks later forgotten how to do it and I have to relearn it again for the next time I want to use it.

Speaker B:

So I only have so much capacity for, for remembering my material.

Speaker B:

So yeah, none of it is natural to me.

Speaker A:

It's just reps if you're in it, if it's, if it's one part of your mind and your body, like, you know, there's so many other things occupying it as well.

Speaker A:

I mean, something I will say with you is you've always been very tight.

Speaker A:

You're a very tight DJ and you.

Speaker B:

Don'T see the outtakes, you don't see the practice sessions or the, the kind of genesis of the routines though that, that's not tight.

Speaker A:

When I've seen you, you know, I've spent enough time cutting with you and stuff and juggling and things like that to see I think you are very tight.

Speaker A:

I think you're doing yourself a slight disservice there.

Speaker A:

And do you think the tightness would come from that time pre turntablism of mixing and mixing dance music.

Speaker B:

I think I've always had good natural rhythm.

Speaker B:

I've always known what sounds on beat, what sounds in key, what is pleasing to the ear.

Speaker B:

That's.

Speaker B:

That's.

Speaker B:

I would say that I have naturally, if you want to say, I have any natural gifts, maybe when I was younger, I was always trying to just get to the highest level I could, but now I've realized I have things other people don't have, so I might as well lean more into those.

Speaker B:

And I would say where some turntable is, go deeper in the craft, I go broader and I try to be good at a variety of things.

Speaker B:

I try to have range.

Speaker B:

That's what I pride myself on.

Speaker B:

Like I can make a routine on just an iPhone or, you know, on a controller or on vinyl or on dbs.

Speaker B:

And I try to understand different ways of flipping music in creative and musical ways as opposed to someone who just hardcore shreds on the cuts.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

Over the same period.

Speaker B:

So I may not.

Speaker B:

I may not scratch as well as them, but I would rather have a broader range of skills.

Speaker B:

And I think that's the.

Speaker B:

The principle I've applied in my DJ career.

Speaker A:

So I guess you've got, say, for example, with the software and stuff, because you've done the open format side of things, you've done the studio side, you've done the battle side.

Speaker A:

You know, you've got all these different experiences that you can lean on and you can put yourself in the different shoes to help sort of with product development, for example.

Speaker B:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B:

And that's all by design, but also all quite organic as well, because I want to have an interesting career.

Speaker B:

And like I said, I. I know when it's time to pivot.

Speaker B:

I know when I've outstayed something and it's no longer serving me.

Speaker B:

I've done that with my DJ career the whole time.

Speaker B:

And I think now I'm at a point where, having DJed for almost 30 years, I know the industry quite well from all angles.

Speaker B:

And I came from the analog era and I've kept up with the digital era.

Speaker B:

And I'm still here, man.

Speaker B:

I'm still somehow in the DJ game and enjoying it more than ever.

Speaker A:

Amazing.

Speaker A:

And if anyone wants to buy the five records of Angelos that aren't covered in stickers and cube burns, I heard from Drock that they were.

Speaker A:

They were pretty well used, let's say.

Speaker B:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B:

I didn't look after my vinyl too.

Speaker A:

Well, but that's part of the fun part, right?

Speaker B:

Part of the fun.

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker A:

Is there anything that we've not covered that's coming up for you?

Speaker B:

I mean, there's.

Speaker B:

There's always stuff coming up.

Speaker B:

I'm working on a few projects right now with major brands that you'll hear about soon.

Speaker B:

Working with algorithm who are at the forefront of technology, means every week's different, but.

Speaker B:

Yeah, man, I mean, watch this space.

Speaker A:

Thanks a lot for sharing that today, mate.

Speaker A:

That's been awesome to.

Speaker A:

For one thing to catch up and for another thing to just kind of dive deep on things, because these are conversations you don't just have.

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker B:

You know, it's been a pleasure life.

Speaker A:

Amazing.

Speaker A:

Right, mate, well, I'll let you get off and get back to your evening.

Speaker A:

You've probably got some practicing to do, I would imagine.

Speaker B:

I actually do.

Speaker B:

I'm shooting a video this week, so it'll probably be out by the time this comes out.

Speaker B:

But always working.

Speaker A:

That's it, mate.

Speaker A:

All right, well, yeah, I'll let you get back to it, mate.

Speaker A:

Thanks a lot for your time.

Speaker B:

Thanks for having me.

Speaker A:

Take care.

Speaker A:

Come on.

Speaker B:

Oh, that was nice.

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About the Podcast

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Once A DJ
A journey from the genesis to the afterlife of a working DJ

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