Episode 86
KnowleDJ on Vegas, Touring with pop stars, the power of the mic and more
Once A DJ is brought to you by:
- https://www.vinylunderground.co.uk - 10% off your next order using code onceadj
- https://www.sureshotshop.com/ - Record adapters (including customs) & accessories
- https://myslipmats.com/ - Custom and off the shelf Slipmats, dividers and more.
- Once A DJ is a https://remote-ctrl.co.uk production
Other ways to support the show
- Follow the show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
- Any feedback or questions? Hit up the Once A DJ Instagram Page
- Subscribe to the Once A DJ Patreon
- Buy your Once A DJ Sureshot 45 adapter clamps
This week I'm joined by KnowleDJ — and this is a slightly different one for the show. He's the first Canadian I've had on since about episode two, and he's built a career that doesn't really look like anyone else's. He grew up in Kelowna, a small city in British Columbia, started out as a hip hop promoter to pay his tuition, and got talked into DJing by a club owner who wanted him to do college nights. He was a "hip hopper for life" who couldn't stand the idea of playing anything else — until the money, and then the music, changed his mind. From there it's cruise ships playing to wildly diverse crowds, an economics degree feeding into how he thinks about the whole game, and eventually opening for the Backstreet Boys, Ice Cube and Ariana Grande, and running the after-parties for No Doubt's Sphere residency.
What I really wanted to get into was the thinking underneath all of that. We talk about cultural deference and why you have to prove you've done the digging before a crowd trusts you. We get into ADHD, diet and the idea of conscientiousness as a cheat code. He walks me through the worst gig of his life — a Vegas set he says was sabotaged, which blacklisted him for years — and the fate-tipping opportunities that came after. There's a genuinely moving stretch about Fat Man Scoop, who mentored him and passed away the very night Knowledge told him he'd played "Be Faithful." And we finish on the economics of it all: why he built himself a "category of one," what blue ocean strategy and ikigai have to do with DJing, and why, with his book The DJ Diaries on the way, he still believes music is the answer.
In this episode we get into:
- Growing up in Kelowna and going from hip hop promoter to open-format DJ
- Reading diverse crowds on the cruise ships, and learning that people hear music differently
- Showing cultural deference — proving you've dug deep before a crowd trusts you
- Rebuilding the No Doubt set from scratch, and the real story behind "Don't Speak"
- ADHD, diet, and conscientiousness as a cheat code (the OCEAN model)
- The brain science of doing hard things, and telling yourself a realistic story
- Learning the mic, the art of the warm-up, and getting over stage fright
- The worst gig of his life and being blacklisted in Vegas
- Opening for Ariana Grande, Backstreet Boys and Ice Cube — and reading GA crowds
- Fat Man Scoop's quiet, huge influence on hip hop — and a tragic full-circle moment
- The economics of DJing: supply and demand, a "category of one," blue ocean strategy and ikigai
- The DJ Diaries, what's next, and the idea of the "otrovert"
Transcript
They're your go to store for upfront releases, repressed classics and deep digging for undiscovered gems. And they're a great crew to deal with who really care about the music and their customers.
To show their support to the Once a DJ community, they're giving you 10% off your next order. Just head to vinylunderground.co.uk and use the code Once a DJ10 at checkout and you'll also get free UK delivery on all orders over £100.
That's one DJ10@vinylunderground.co.uk. Before we get back to the show, I just wanted to tell you that outside of this podcast, I run a business called remote control.
That's remote-ctrl.co.uk and basically it's where I get to do what I love. Audio and video production, design, management, all of that sort of creative stuff. And the nice thing is I don't do it alone.
Over the years, especially through DJing, I've met some seriously talented people, from producers to designers to videographers and more. And we've built this little network where we can pretty much take on any creative project.
So whether you need a podcast edited or a video produced or branding work or whatever, we've got you covered. It's honestly been one of the most rewarding things I've done, working with people I actually respect and enjoy collaborating with.
So if you've got a project in mind or you're just curious about what we do, head to remote-ctrl.co.uk and let's chat. No pressure, just good creative work. Welcome back to Want to DJ everyone.
Just a couple of little things to get into before we start the show this week. Rebrand. I'm going to be rebranding and renaming the show Paths of Rhythm soon.
It's more of an overarching banner that I think works for all the different projects that I want to do so and I think it also suits the podcast quite well as well in terms of what would do and who I speak to beyond DJing or beyond DJs, I should say, and gives co and give scope to expand that some more as well. So that'll be coming up in the next four to eight weeks.
Really excited to be working with some wicked people and some people I've had on the show in terms of doing this rebranding work. So more to come on that soon. And for this week's episode, I interview Knowledge, a D DJ working out of Las Vegas at the moment.
And he's worked with the Backstreet Boys, No Doubt, Ice Cube, amongst others.
And he's got some really interesting points around, sort of economic principles, things like that, and some of his experiences which are detailed in his book, the DJ Diaries. I read about half of that book in prep for the interview and it's a really good read, really easy read and lots of interesting stuff in there.
And that's coming out on pre order 5th of July.
And if you would like to get that on the pre order and the Official release is July 15th, if you go to knowledge.net forward/the DJ Diaries, that's k n o w l e d j.net forward/the DJ Diars to reserve your copy.
So, yeah, and just lastly, I might say this too much, I might not say it enough, but anything you can do in terms of sharing, reviewing, rating the show, commenting, anything like that, just spreading the word, help to grow the show, helps me to keep making more episodes. So, yeah, anything that you can do is much appreciated. And yeah, that's it really. So yeah, let's get on with the show.
Right, camera, right headphones, great stuff. Welcome back to Once A dj everyone. The show that looks at what brings us together and what sets us apart. Happy to say.
Probably since episode two, I think this is the first Canadian we've got in and he's got a real sort of mixed bag of experiences and we're going to be looking at things in a slightly different way to any of the episodes we've had before. He's done opening for Backstreet Boys, Toradex for Ice Cube, doing after parties currently for No Doubt on their Sphere gigs.
So, yeah, working with some very interesting artists in very deep ways. So Knowledge, how you doing?
Speaker B:Good, man. How's things with you?
Speaker A:Yeah, all right, thank you. Been rushing around, but yeah, managed to get it together and we've managed to sync up, which is great. And I'm looking forward to the chat.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker A:So, like with everyone, we just start from the start, really. Where did you grow up, where are you from and where did music come into your life?
Speaker B:Well, I grew up in a small city in Canada in British Columbia, near Vancouver. It's a city called Kelowna, if people want to Google map it. Very competitive nightclub environment. And I started working with the smallest club.
I was a promoter and I loved hip hop. So I would bring in hip hop DJs from Vancouver and it would help me pay my tuition.
And the club owner suggested I start to dj, and he wanted me to do a college night, and that required having to play a variety of music. And at the time, I thought, no, I'm hip hopper for life. And then he offered me a decent sum of money to do it.
I was like, all right, I'll give this a shot. I can't stand these artists. But whatever, it's money.
And that grew from that to actually genuinely appreciating a variety of music to now being my trademark, which is playing all kinds of music and weaving them in and out and being able to make just about any audience go crazy. So that's. That's what I love to do.
Speaker A:So with that, then when you started doing those nights when you were promoting, were you promoting just hip hop nights or was what you were promoting open format?
Speaker B:No, so I. I started promoting hip hop, and then the way it changed, electronic music was rising, and the owner actually got me to bring some electronic promoters in that would bring DJs. And then he'd say to me, he'd say, why don't you open for these guys? I'm like, well, I'm not an electronic dj. He's like, why don't you learn it?
I'm like,.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And then I just started learning it, and then I started appreciating. It was a totally different way to dj, right? It was a totally. And deeper than that. It's a different culture.
And it really got me curious and understanding that there's different people who absorb music differently, who appreciate different aspects of the artistry of it, you know, and then that then went from that to, let's say. How do I put it? They, you know, they appreciate different aspects of it.
So that what you like about this is different from what this audience might like. And learning that stuff was fundamental to me, actually taking a deeper dive into everything I do.
So basically, the key thing is knowing that people appreciate music differently. They listen to it differently, they listen for different things. They want the backstory. They want.
Some audiences want the musicality or the instrumentality of it. Some people want the lyrics.
Some people look with this, you know, when you look at top 40, for instance, that audience looks at music differently from, say, an electronic, looks at it differently from a hip hop audience. But then it goes even deeper. Like as I talk about in the book, when I started DJing on the cruise ships, you know what really fascinated me?
Here I am from you know, small city in Canada to now the, the ship I did was primarily black Americans that would go on it. So. And audiences from Chicago, like different hip hop from audiences from Texas, from audiences from New York.
Speaker A:So I'm quite interested in, in getting into a lot of this because for me, I'm like, I've had this kind of like love, hate relationship with DJing over the years. I think if DJing for me, you weren't seen at all. You were nowhere in the eyesight.
You just got to literally choose music and see how people respond to it, then I'd enjoy it more. But I've got to accept that, like, that's not part of it.
And also I'm kind of approaching DJing a bit differently and looking at more about open format and things like that and looking at, in more of like, almost say, like a corporate way. Okay. So you get your brief, doing your research and prep.
So I'm quite interested in hearing about these experiences and it's kind of what that learning curve was for you because you talk in the book. So in your book, this will talk about down the line, which I've read about half of and then a bit more. So key stuff that we'll get into.
There's a lot of different lessons about how you approach DJing as a career and as a profession. And that's not to say other people don't, but it's just in a bit of a different way.
So it'll be, it'll be really interesting for me to understand a bit about how you went from being that person with that musical identity and grew out of that. And what was that learning curve like? Starting with the electronic nights.
Speaker B:Right. So, you know, you realize that there's a different culture. Right. And the first thing you gotta understand is what makes them tick.
That's different from what you're used to. Right. And I realized with electronic music at the time now this is like the late 90s, right? Right. Where vinyl was still the thing.
CDs were a new innovation and very disliked. So here's one interesting access that I had.
I had because I was the main promoter, record labels knew that and at the time they would get me records, so they got me hip hop records. And this is actually what got me down the path. They would give me electronic records as well. So I had these relationships.
I could start because I'd give these guys records. I'm like, hey, guys, I got, you know, you remember bmg?
I don't know how far back you go, but, you know, and they'd have Universal, BMG and all these guys. And I'd talk to these guys, I'd be like, hey, here's this record, here's that record. I'd be like, wow, thanks, man.
So now I've got this relationship, this humanizing, and I think that's really important. And I think there's these deep human instincts that want us not to humanize the other and that can take on dynamics with music.
And when people saw me as a person, you know, that changed that dynamic. And then they saw me as. And here's another key insight. It's showing that culture deference, right?
So if I'm going to play electronic music, if I'm going to play country music, something that's sort of outside my cultural context, I need to show them that I've done my research. I need to show them that I am part of that culture.
So when I'm playing house music, I'm not just, you know, at the time, you know, there was a very big schism between mainstream and more underground electronic music. How far back with electronic do go?
Speaker A:I mean, I was into it in the 90s. Yeah. So you remember kind of like Come and Gone.
Speaker B:Yeah. So you remember, like even songs like Stardust, you know, music sounds.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Now it's considered really mainstream. Right. So like when you. When I would play my open format night, I'd play that song.
But if I'm doing an opening set for, you know, major DJ coming into town, I wouldn't play any of that because that was too mainstream at the time. Right. And now over the decades, I think that's less of a component.
idn't see that till about the:But before that, showing deference to that culture was very, very important. Showing that you were willing to dig deep for records and introduce audiences to them. And even hip hop was like that. Right.
Because at the time, radio was how people mostly discovered music. It wasn't even the Internet back then. Right. So I don't know. Does any of that resonate with you? Is that.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and, and, and so, so, you know, from there I, you know, and then doing the cruise ships, I realized like just how diverse people were. And if you could figure out that magic formula, you could create magic with people, you know, which I still try to do to this day, you know,.
Speaker A:So for context, for people with the cruise ships, but we need to rewind further back from that as well. So with, with the cruise ships. And this is the part I've got to. In the book, you're in a situation where you might be playing.
I can't remember if you mentioned the number of people that would be on that sort of four hour party. But you've got to play to people from all walks of life.
Whereas, say, if you're in a nightclub, I think you're gonna have less diversity in the specific audience. Whereas on there you're just going to get people from north, south, east, west, country fans, reggae fans.
Like, how do you suss out a crowd like that in order to, to keep them happy for that amount of time? And what directions you can go. Have you got certain, like, litmus tests?
Speaker B:Yeah, this is exactly what came to mind when you said that. So it's exactly that. And you try to get clues from the audience and you also plant seeds.
And I do this to this day, which is like, you want to test early on and sort of see what people react to. So you throw out stuff.
And even like, I'll give you the example now with No Doubt, I honestly came in just like, I start a lot, really, with a pretty blank slate with sort of some ideas. But honestly not. I don't like to do too many because you. And, and, and, and, and No Doubt's a great example. And I'll tell you why.
Because I came in with Gwen Stefani's solo stuff. Do you know their history and how, you know, she went on to do her solo stuff and things like that?
Speaker A:I know she did this stuff, like with Dre.
Speaker B:Well, she did stuff she got. Yes, would blow your mind. And she did. But she did a lot of club stuff. Right. And those were big. And my first. Yes, that's a good example.
So I, I would play a lot of those because those are the ones I knew would be sure shots to the club audience or. Right. Well, guess what? The band came on the first day and they weren't happy. They said, look, man, this isn't the Gwen Stefani show.
I was like, you know, and, and they were right. And I, I completely revamped everything and I, in essence started from scratch in the sense I just focused on their songs.
And that was much harder because most of them weren't club hits. Right. So I had to craft a set that would be something far more of a No Doubt audience, not a club audience.
And I want, like, I would say my set from the first Night to the last to the latest one, I kid you not, is about 80% different. And I really dive deep, and I dive deep into their story and their fans and their ska history.
So I started playing all these adjacent bands that I was not even familiar with. Honestly, I was not even familiar with a lot of these bands. And, you know, from diving in, I was like, oh, they like this.
You know the song Come On Eileen? Well, there's a Scar version of it.
Speaker A:So I. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I didn't even know. I wasn't even aware.
Speaker A:Is that Reel Big Fish?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's impressive that, you know, Reel Big Fish that'll tell you. As diverse as I am, I didn't know that there was this version of the song, but that's how deep I dived in. And then also there were like.
Their story is incredible. Do you know. Do you know the No Doubt story? Do you know. You know the song don't, so. The song Don't.
So they started in the late 80s in high school, and they. They had a lead singer that passed away, committed suicide. And so Gwen's brother was in the band, and so they just brought her on.
Oh, this, you know, young girl could sing, and all she would do is sing. Her brother and the bassist Tony would write the songs. And so secretly, they started a relationship, Tony and her.
And at the tender age of 23, Tony decided he no longer wanted to date her. So he broke up with her. He broke up with Gwen. And that caused her so much angst that she wrote for the first time. Her first song was Don't Speak.
Wow, what an incredible story. Right? Because that song was what catapulted them.
Speaker A:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Without that song, it's safe to say they would not be where they are at today. And it was over them. So for the last 30 years, they have been performing that song together as a broken up couple. Isn't that. You know what I mean?
Like, that blew me away. I wasn't even aware of that till I dive.
Speaker A:It must get. It must get less awkward the. More times.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, they're married. I mean, she's married to. To Blake. I. I don't even. I'm sure he's married as well, and I think his wife is someone.
I mean, I. I really hope the best for. I'm sure they're.
They're happy, you know, and they've obviously reconciled it now, but, I mean, there's a lot to unpack there, you know, and honestly, I. I found it very relatable. I was In a similar relationship where I did incredible things with music, with a partner, and, you know, we're clearly not together anymore.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and.
And I dive into that in the book is, you know, there's a lot of mental anxiety and why it's caused and the type of people that are drawn to music or these 10 have these tendencies. And so I really try to give people tips on how to overcome and what's actually happening, why you're getting anxiety, why you're getting depressed.
Because we're in a very, very tough game where there's all kinds of variables.
Speaker A:You talk a lot in the book about adhd. I don't know, again, if there's a bit where you really lay out your journey with it. But I think what's interesting in there is your.
What I've read about kind of laser focus and things like that, about your kind of grasp of it. What was your process of learning and understanding yourself and understanding the condition.
Speaker B:Right. So from a young age. Right. I was diagnosed with hyperactivity at the time as a kid.
And, you know, they knew there were some links to diet, but it wasn't really till later in life that I really, really went after that. And it took me decades, honestly, because it was very much trial and error of realizing that certain foods really impacted me.
Sugar, processed foods and whatnot really have a negative impact. And then I got deep into supplementation and meditation and learning that these take years to really help develop those skills.
But here's the number one skill, and I thank my dad for this, who recently passed away. He was very hard on me, and he really believed in a disciplined life. And this is what.
What drove him crazy about this, you know, kid, that he had this rambunctious kid, and that is conscientiousness. Are you familiar with the Ocean personality description?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:So ocean is openness to experience, conscious conscientiousness, extroversion. What's the A? And so the N stands for neuroticism. So these are the best predictors of your behavior.
You know, there's all kinds of personality tests, but Ocean is the most accurate. And conscientiousness, that's the key, because most musicians and creative types lack that.
So if you can develop conscientiousness, this is something I've realized over time. I'm a lot more conscientious than the average artist. I'm more organized. I have systems. And this is something I've developed over time, too.
And I've realized that this really was my cheat code for Getting ahead, you know, because, you know, I, I've seen DJs, they're always late, like as proceed. It's practically procedural with DJs, I just know they are. And whereas with me, I'm always early for major gigs.
When I did the Backstreet Boys tour, if my sound check was at 4pm, I would show up at 2 because traveling to these arenas, they get a little bit busy and then they get extremely busy very quickly. And there's all kinds of hidden variables. When I'm in London, I'm not from there, so there's all kinds of things.
I could even Google map it, it could tell me something. And so there's all these things. And when you're, when you have adhd, you don't factor those things. Right.
There's certain things that ADHD people are very vulnerable to, but they're also the types of people that are very creative. They're generally the types of people that like to be artists.
So if you can combine these traits together, it's one of the most powerful combinations. And it really is these things that I look for in others when I work with artists because it's very difficult.
The creative process could get very messy.
Speaker A:And like. So you talk as well about, like, because you talk about a different part of the brain in the book to the typical ones that people take.
Speaker B:The AMCC anterior mid-cingulate cortex. And I talk about the habenula.
Speaker A:Yes, sure, that's the one. Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes. And these have fundamental impacts. Now I think a lot of people are aware of mechanical manifestation.
They're aware of having this resilience and positive mindsets.
But something that I've realized over decades, that I've done and that actually far more mirrors the science of how to get ahead and how to live a healthy life with healthy self esteem, which is, you know, we all tell ourselves a story. That mental story is, is absolutely fundamental. It's critical to your success over time.
And here's where most people get it wrong is they believe in these mantras that they could repeat to themselves. They believe, hey, when I'm just going to pray, I'm going to DJ in Vegas. I'm going to DJ for the Backstreet Boys.
I didn't never, I never did any of those things. If you would have told me I was going to DJ for the Backstreet Boys one day, a day before I got the call, I would have said, you're crazy. Right.
And that's because what I have done instead is told myself a realistic story with a Positive spin. So, for example, I talk about learning a mic. I'm considered one of the best hype men in the world, right?
It's really hard for people to believe that there was a time where I was the worst mic guy on the planet. I was terrible, terrible, terrible.
And I still credit the first club owner I worked for, who I devoted a whole chapter to as, you know, for really giving me the patience to actually getting good on a mic, because it. I was terrible. And every day I would suck. And I remember telling myself, okay, you did one thing right, so just, just focus on that.
And I was so bad that I would literally, I was so scared of the audience, I would look away from the audience, you know, and you can still get hints of it now. Like, I still occasionally stutter. And I'm very happy to say to people, the biggest thing that I have done is I no longer drink alcohol.
I do take some fantastic supplements, healthy legal supplements that help put you at ease in front of an audience. But I very much attribute it's this conscientiousness with this ability to tell yourself a story that's realistic with a positive outlook.
And to that part with the anterior mid-cingulate cortex, that's the part of your brain that grows every time you do something important that you don't like.
Speaker A:And that's something else you hit on. There is. I just read the bit because. So, like, I DJed for the, for the local.
For the, like, pre party, for the local football team, okay, for their final, final game of the season, right? And I never do anything like that. I was quite excited to do it because it was a totally different type of gig to anything I've done, right?
But I'm also up there on stage. I'm thinking, don't anyone look at me.
And then, like, I didn't take a mic with me because I chatted to someone before about it and they talked about, you know, like, how good it is. You've just got to start doing it. And I thought, yeah, yeah, you do. And then at the. At the last minute, I bottled it.
And then at the gig, like, I had to just flick the volume down to shout last orders. And it's like, that's even worse than having a mic. Do you know what I mean? It's like, if I've had a mic, at least it.
People are just, like, expecting it. Rather than me going, five minutes, get your drinks.
Speaker B:You know, after the podcast, I'll give you just quick, easy tips to getting people. The key to that is to say something Mundane at the beginning. Just so people know you're going to talk. Even when they're just.
When they're just milling about.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Even to this day I do that. Right. You know, even when I'm doing the No Doubt. Welcome everybody, to the greatest fan experience you're ever going to see. And that's it.
I don't expect a response, Nothing. I just know people. But now they're mentally. They're tuning to my voice. Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so it's all about the warm up. The warmup is everything. And I could really teach a course on this. It's to the point where I showed.
There's so many clips of me talking and hyping crowds on TikTok that a guy, actually my first time ever having an online hater and he's like, well, you could talk on a mic, but can you actually dj? And I just thought that was hilarious because anyone that knew me, I'm actually a very good scratcher.
I'm very good at mixing, I'm very good at all that stuff. But that doesn't make my highlight clips. That's all right. It's just because it's these crowd responses that look great on social media.
For me, Anyway, there's other DJs that can do stuff, but in particular there's very few DJs that can get the response. And it's this combination of me diving into the artist's history and then combining that with my mic skills and knowing what works and.
And really putting together unique stuff for every show. I do.
Speaker A:Yeah. Earlier on in the book, you. And one real kind of like central point in it, I guess is you talk about when you had the worst gig of your life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then it was almost like a Sliding Doors moment because the greatest opportunity ever happened after. Yeah. But thinking about it with that, did you. Because the way you sort of write about it in the book, it's like you felt like your career was over.
Speaker B:I really did that pretty much.
Speaker A:Like, what? For what reason? Because basically the sound man had messed up. Right.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:What was it about it that made you feel like that was like it. Because like everyone has a bad day at work. Right.
Speaker B:Right. But this is Vegas where it's. I don't really dive into this part of it, but it was definitely done intentionally. And the problem is it was all.
I was the one blamed. It was so crazy because, you know, any DJ knows, like, I've never mixed up phono and digital lines. Like, I know, like there's no way.
And it was Just so strange. Even the premise, like I explained in the book, like, he told me he wanted to do it without me there, which was really strange.
And, and then the word got out in Vegas that almost blew the sound system and that essentially blacklisted me for years. I, I couldn't pay buy a gig here, you know, and, and it would.
And to this day, like I, you know, and, and I talk about this and, and I think I came up with an interesting insight for this in that I'm not famous enough to be past the haters, but I, I'm very scary to come to town because when people generally see me dj, you know, the difference between me and the average resident is usually pretty substantial, you know, because of my ability to mic, because I have this concert experience, to really create these emotional experiences in clubs and crowds, because I have the ability to use a mic, I have the ability to DJ such a wide variety of music and it's intimidating, you know, and even back then it was. And so I really went. It really.
I've had these pivotal moments in my career where I do believe it was fate, you know, you know, getting that email, you know, I'll never forget, like.
And it really was the, the upward slope, you could say that really did take me to, from doing the VIP parties to, you know, when I opened for Ariana Grande. That's when really things I was seen and perceived differently.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And it gave me experience that can't be replicated.
Speaker A:Would Ariana Grande then at that point have been the first artist that you worked with that had a significantly younger fan base and would that was that quite difficult within adjustment because like maybe not with her sort of age demographic, but younger people like mixing that's shorter and quicker sort a shot retention span mixing almost, don't they?
Speaker B:So, you know, this is a story that didn't make the book, but I'm going to explain just the constraints and the challenges I was under. So remember that Birmingham just happened with the terrorist bombing. So at that point I thought the tour was going to be off. So I was.
It was the greatest day of my life. Finding. Getting confirmed in that same day. It got called off because of what happened and it was so unfortunate. A week later I was back on.
I was starting in Paris, my first big gig in my life. So I had a decent idea of what to play and I reached out to her management saying, hey, do's don'ts, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And let's just say the set I had planned about an hour before I was supposed to hit the stage. Basically, her tour manager's like, actually, no, do this, this and this. My answer was, sure, no problem. And the answer.
But the real answer in my head was, oh my God, I'm toast. What am I gonna. I'm like, I was terrified. I. So I went. My dress.
Speaker A:Is that because you had no time to prepare or was it because the suggestion.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, well, two things. So my, my original hunch I think was right, which is this is a concert with young women and their moms. That's most of the audience.
There's, you know, other people of course too. But so I, my, my hunch was to play, you know, throwback 90s stuff, Britney Spears and things like that. But I got. Nope, don't do any of that. So. Okay.
And then I literally had to reconfigure my set within an hour of planning in my head, right? So I've got to plan this all mentally. I've got to.
Then I've got to make some special edits because I got to transition from 128 to 90 and that's way harder when you've only got a 30 minute set, right. So I've got to get into Ableton and edit stuff. And I got a standing ovation at the end, so I'll just say that. So nice.
It's this ability that I have to work under incredible pressure.
And I attribute the combination of ADHD with the conscientiousness that enables me to handle these incredibly high pressure situations that, you know, from the beginning I got trained for and just gradually got better and better at.
Speaker A:So if you're, if you're opening for an act of that size, their fan base are gonna like a lot of songs by their competitors. Are you kind of good to go with anything that's in that world or do you get quite specific? Don't play anything by this person.
Speaker B:Well, I love, I love doing the Backstreet Boys. Their instructions were one thing. Turn it up. That's all they wanted, right?
Speaker A:So could you play NSYNC there then?
Speaker B:They didn't say. They didn't tell me not to, but I didn't play it. You know, that's, you know, I wasn't gonna go there, so I would say in terms of the least direction.
But you still gotta read the room. Is, is you still gotta read the room, right? You know, like, let's say with hip hop, you've gotta know their history.
You know, that was, that was really interesting. With Mariah Carey, I got to know her main right hand. Guy, Trey Lorenz, who's been her duet partner, backup singer for 30 years.
We actually put out a song together and incredible guy and he actually told me Mariah's deep story that I was not aware of. You know, everybody's heard how her, you know, she's famously said some negative things about JLo, but they don't know the story behind why.
And if they understood that JLO was brought in to destroy her career by her now divorced husband, you understand why. And, and this is why I tell people when you go to these backstories, they're, the artist becomes way more fascinating. Way, way, way more fascinating.
That's what I hope in my book.
You know, I've obviously never reached the heights of any of these guys, but, you know, I've got my own story to tell with all these people and I, and I hope that other people recognize just the challenges and what it took me to get, you know, when you see me on stage, what it took to get me there, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, so what something we've not covered is your economics background and your economics degree.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:So were you active? Was it just promoting or DJing at that point? And how did one help the other either way round?
Speaker B:Well, I mean, I, I started by putting on events. So I was a promoter that I loved hip hop and all my favorite DJs I wanted to bring from Vancouver at the time was the big city.
And that's how I understood the business. And of course, being an econ guy, I knew about supply and demand.
I saw the opportunity with the business and then when I got this opportunity to dj, here's what I didn't realize till I got into the role is how few DJs understood that business side of it.
And even when I was a promoter, I saw that when I would bring in certain DJs and they wouldn't resonate with the crowd and their attitude be like, oh, I got to educate them or this crowd sucked or whatever. I'm like, well, this crowd might have sucked, but it's my crowd and I'm paying you. So, like, if I bring in guys like you, I'm going to go broke.
Do you know what I mean? So, like, I understood that end of it. So when I dj, I understand that this guy's got to pay his bills too. Right?
And these people, one of the biggest misconceptions of the business, heads of music, is that they're not passionate about music. And that's just not true. Most of them are very passionate about music. They love music.
But they also got to pay for the roof, they got to pay the bills, and all of that has got to interweave for things to work in the long run. Right? And it's just like, you know, very beginning of the book, I talk about these, these things, supply and demand, right?
There's always way too many DJs.
And now with the advent of the technology, right, with the sync button, with, with all these things right now, with AI even being a dj, let's be honest, it's gotten easier and easier. And what that means is more and more people can do it.
So when you've got more people that can do something, it puts downward pressure on the price unless you can find a niche that other people can't do.
And that's exactly what I've done by putting in my decades, I've played these different types of music and my ability to absorb and go deep with an artist like, like No Doubt I can then cater to an experience that very, very, very few DJs can do. Right. And, and you need to convey this on social media, you know, so, and, and have these relationships.
But, and when you do that, honestly, I'm getting more work than ever, you.
Speaker A:Know, so, yeah, when we were talking on the phone, you were saying some quite interesting points about that made me think about how people sort of chase the social media clout versus what that actually converts into in terms of the real world and, and building a career.
Speaker B:Yes, it's, it's, it's somewhat complex, but there. You do need to be on social media, but you don't need to chase the likes and the virality necessarily.
You do need to convey an ability to hold a certain type of audience to whatever needs that person has. Right. So if you can do that, you're going to be successful.
You know, I just did a massive, massive corporate gig here in Vegas and it was from an event company that found me on Snapchat.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yep, yep. So it's, it's nice. Absolutely.
You know, after we get off today, I'm, I'm gonna make my first post the, the No Doubt fans, because I've had my own photographers there take video and photos and the fans are so excited about it. So excited. Like, I've really, I would have to say I've become friends with all the fans, with all the artists I, I deal with.
But the No Doubt fans, maybe it's because it's generational, they're generally my generation, but they've been fantastic, man. They've just been really a lot a Lot of fun and really, really cool people. So. Yeah. And that's where I build my own fan base. Right.
And that's the key, is to resonate. And then hopefully they resonate. I really hope people. You've been asking me fantastic questions from the book, man. I really appreciate that.
Speaker A:Yeah. There's a couple of really nice quotes that I picked out. I'm struggling to remember what my exact contact was. Context.
But I like what you were saying. What you were saying about. There's one bit I pulled out where you said about that people didn't buy tickets to see you.
I think that's in terms of the warming up and just understanding.
Speaker B:Oh, the. With concept.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it comes back to this deference. Right. So. So when. When I'm opening for the Backstreet Boys, when I'm opening for Ice Cube, I'm there for that artist. Right. And their audience.
So I'm not winning over anyone if I'm DJing to myself. Right. I need to show that audience that I understand them and their culture. And this was a lesson, like I said, just happened to me with No Doubt.
I mean, I really appreciated the feedback from. From Tony. Right. It was conveyed to me from, you know, their head person. Like, okay, they weren't happy. This is not. This was, you know, some.
Something along the lines of, this isn't the Gwen show. You know, they really wanted to be about No Doubt. And I was very stressed out because I was like, man, I don't know if their songs will. And.
And it turns out it was the. By far the better way to do it. And. And it, like I said, 80% difference in music. And the crowds are absolutely loving it. Loving it.
And it really shows them that I know, you know, No Doubt and I can. And I can get. And they get that much more behind it that way. Right?
Speaker A:Yeah. I mean, I think. I think. Cause you're. You're about five years older than me.
But for me, when No Doubt or at that kind of Pete with Don't Speak, and I don't know if it's fair to say that's their Pete, but that seemed to me like the height of their popularity over here. And there's so much music from that area that just hits in a hugely nostalgic way to me.
Speaker B:Yes. It's. With that. With most artists now, I'm finding that. And. And here's the biggest surprise. A lot of younger people, too.
There's a lot of younger people. And I'm going to say this. I really. I'm really Starting to appreciate older music now for its complexity.
I really think there's been a homogenization with all music now. It's actually become more mainstream. I hate to use the word crappy, but it really, it really is.
When you listen to this old stuff, it's so much better. It was so much better crafted even. Don't Speak is just such a well written, composed song. And these were kids, they were kids at the time, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Nuts, right?
Speaker A:Yeah. That doesn't blow my mind with some artists, how young they are and how mature they can write and the level of like and like some art is like Oasis.
They can just write anthems. Yes.
Speaker B:And okay, but this one's going to blow your mind the most. This is one that went past everyone. I'm such a music nerd. You know the song by Hanson mbop? Yeah, this. Read the lyrics, listen to the lyrics.
They're mind blowingly, I want to almost say pessimistic and I don't know, pessimistic might be too strong. But realistic, they are prescient.
And these were like kids that wrote these lyrics and if I would love to DJ for Hanson, man, like you go into their history, it's fascinating. They had this massive hit and the labels wanted to keep them sounding like that. And they had this problem as they were getting older.
So they weren't these kids anymore, but they're super talented and that's what made them so angry was there are so talented and they wanted to be seen as real musicians, not these teeny, you know, even kitty bopper types. Right. And that song Bop has a very, you know, top 40 feel to it, but you actually dive into the lyrics. You're like, how did that go past us?
You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Yeah, it's got kind of like a bubble gummy sort of sound.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah. But their lyrics are like talking about the future. Like, whoa, dude, how did we miss that?
And now when, when we see the way music and I'm, I'm going to take a slag at electronic music. Like, it's so homogenized, man. It's so predictable. I, we just had EDC this weekend. Everyone's like, oh man, you must. I'm like, Well I, I D.J.
No Doubt. And, and so I couldn't go, but I wouldn't go. Like, I, I'm not interested in hearing the same predictable build, drop, build, drop into the next one.
And then what's the variation? Oh, he went from a, a build from one song into a drop of another. How talented you Know what I mean?
Speaker A:I guess that's part of. Maybe part of that is like, being in Vegas and like, EDM's such a big part of the DJ in there, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, but I mean, I would say electronic has just become so homogenized and predictable and even now, you know, we've got the multiple sub genres and of course there's variations there, but I'm talking, you know, progressive house and, you know, the 128, generally, it's. It's very, very predictable.
And, you know, when you do these other artists, you realize, like, even the stuff we kind of made fun of, like bop back in the day, you're, like, actually incredible. Like, like I said, like, think. Think about No Doubt, you know, Don't Speak. What a fantastic song.
And this was a young woman that just broke up with her bassist, that she. She wanted to marry him. Like, she was very in love with him. And that's what prompted her to write this incredible song.
And now they've got to perform it together for the next 30. Like, that's way more interesting a story, right? Like, I think if people really realize that, I think. I think that's the culture and.
And that's what culture does. It makes you zero in on one thing and. And overlook others. And I. And I think that's what I've learned in my journey in this to.
To really learn how to zoom out and. And look at these different things.
Speaker A:Well, like, me. Me and my mate started a playlist just kind of. Just because we were chatting about this certain sort of stuff.
And I suppose it's like early:Say like Stacy's mom and Stacey's mom has got it a load of stuff in that world, like Heaven is a Half Pipe and things like that. Just. I don't know why we started, but then I've ended up listening to it quite a lot at the gym.
And loads of these tunes use break beats, you know, they use like Impeach the President, Skull Snaps and stuff. But they've also, like, got this really, like, light scratching on it. And I'm just on the man. Yes.
I do wonder, was there just one DJ that had this, like, monopoly on scratching on that?
Speaker B:You know, it's sort of world. You know, it's crazy, crazy. There's a song you remember, Crazy Town Butterfly. Yeah, that's actually DJ am, who is an. Oh, the open format legend.
Do you know dj?
Speaker A:He's Vegas Isn't he? He like, he.
Speaker B: mean, well, he passed away in:One that created the mashup movement that all us mashup open format guys look up to to this day. He is truly the OG mashup guy that we all loved. And you know, he brought scratching to the main with that song was massive at the time. Right.
And it was different in that, like you said, these non rap songs started using scratching light. Like you said, it's like a little bit in the background, nothing crazy. And it's. It's just fascinating.
This intersection of stuff absolutely boggles my mind and. And I hope by having this podcast, more people get interested in it.
Speaker A:Yeah. I think with talking about the open for.
Well, about the mashups and the things like that and thinking about like sort of AV8 records and things, that's a quite interesting one with you with the Fat Man Scoop. Yeah, connections. I think his stuff was on AV8, wasn't it?
Speaker B:Correct, correct.
Speaker A:Yeah. Yeah. Like did. Because. Because you. You speak. You speak about him in the book.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Did he influence you in terms of like, mic skills?
Speaker B:Huge. Massive. He influenced me in so many ways. And it. I don't know if you got to the part in the book where it closes.
It's actually incredible the role that Fat Man Scoop has had in hip hop music. So I actually talk about one of the most incredible meetings, chance meetings I've ever had.
Me and Scoop had a promoter, a major promoter, and he happened to come into town for the nightclub in bar show with me and Omnia. I knew one of the main guys. He's like, I got a bottle for you guys. Come on over. And Scoop doesn't drink, but yeah, let's go.
We're on our way to the casino and. Or sorry to Omnia and Caesars. So we go through the casino and who's there playing at the table but Coolio.
Coolio's sitting there playing blackjack or whatever it was. He sees Scoop, stops him. They hug like they're best buddies. And I became witness to one of the most incredible conversations.
And these are the things that this is really what I wanted to do in my book is let people know, like, just what a pivotal role. So Scoop used to be a record pusher. That was his job. So his job, he worked for Tommy Boy, was to get Tommy Boy's music on New York radio.
Because at the time, of course, in the 90s, New York radio was ground zero for hip hop. The west coast was on the come up. But it was, you know, it was New York that. That ran it.
So these west coast guys needed that co sign of New York radio. And now you probably.
Now, I don't know if this happened in the UK the way it happened here in North America, but the first massive west coast rapper was Coolio and he had this massive song 1 no or sorry, a Fantastic Voyage. Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
And I had Coolio personally tell me how my guy Fat Man Scoop's, like, he was your guy that got my record into the hands of Funk Flex and the guys that got it played on New York radio. And that's what made it the huge hit that it was. And I have heard this from several people in the most unique ways.
And Scoop just quietly carried the most incredible stuff. And he just. He was such a fascinating guy because I. I honestly think he was more famous in the UK than he was here.
Here in the US In a lot of ways where his.
Speaker A:I don't know. Like, I'm probably not deep enough and. And wasn't deep enough at the time to. To know just how big he was, but I know, like, his.
His big, like the Be Faithful was huge. I think. I think his It Takes Scoop was massive. It Takes Scoop was massive as well.
Speaker B:Well, he had. And I talk about this story because I had a very personal connection to it. So he also did lose control with Missy Elliott.
So we did a gig for the super bowl in Phoenix 10 years ago. We're in his hotel room. He became good friends with some of the Seattle players. And this is an incredible story.
I'm sitting in the hotel room and we're watching this, the halftime show. And Nobody knows but Ms. Ciale, it's a surprise guest. And. And she's getting this huge response. And of course, we knew what was coming.
Lose control on the halftime show. And here I am next to Scoop in his hotel room. Right. I mean, how do you describe that feeling?
Knowing that if he was out there, it would have ignited a whole thing, like, for. Even for Missy Elliott at the time, it shot up her music and all these things. And that's the difference.
That's how close superstardom and stardom is from like, oh, yeah, I recognize that voice to that. But quietly, Scoop has done so much for the industry that he never, ever asked for any.
You know, and I talk about how he put My Tennessee Whiskey, a country EDM remix that I made. He blasted it out on his email list. I never asked him. He just did it for me as a Just. I still don't know why he did it. That's how awesome he was.
Right? And I'll never forget, you know, the week I was opening for Flowrider in the city where I first played Be Faithful.
And I told him and, you know, it's typical. Oh, cool. You know, like, all right. And I'm like, yeah, man, I'll send you the video when I do it. And he passed away that night.
He passed away that night. And I still did, you know, I did a tribute for him that night on the stage a week later.
You know, it was the most tragic full circle moment I've ever had. Still hard to think about. Right? But that's life, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it's. I mean, it's lovely to hear this sort of insight about him as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah. People had no idea what a fundamental. And I, I just want to add one thing to the Coolio story.
At the end, I was like, guys, I'm sorry I have to do this, but I'm gonna break in a fanboy mode right now. I. I've gotta. I gotta.
I gotta get a picture of this moment because I still am that kid, you know, that looked up to you guys, you know, from small town Canada. And we got the, you know, the waitress. Hey, can you get a picture? And you know, it's. It's not the greatest picture, but to this day I treasure it.
Who would have thought that, you know, a few years later, both of them passed away. Right. And I. I still have that. That hour with those guys that I'll never forget, you know?
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it. In the sort of opportunities that you get and things, I'm guessing, you know, you get around people that. Heroes particularly.
It's sort of like an ice cube or, or whoever as well.
And like, do you have to be, like, really careful around, like, sort of fanboying and stuff like that and just making sure you stay cool, giving space, very professional.
Speaker B:So backstage, a certain. There's a lot of sort of unwritten rules. So the, the first one is never approach the artist. Now that sounds very diva esque, but it's not.
It's because they need to be treated normally. Right? Backstage is a place where they're treated like human beings. And if a regular person walked by you in a hall, you wouldn't.
That you didn't know, you would not have to do. You know what I mean? And they have very big things to focus on. And I would have to say overwhelmingly, most stars are very cool people.
They're very down to earth. Most you get the odd diva. But actually I've got an interesting story. You know who is a real diva, who I worked with here and he's from the UK.
The only person I'll ever talk smack about because he really was kind of rotten to me in the end is Matt Goss.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, he was the first big star. So he had a show here in Vegas and I became the DJ for it. And he. He actually is a pretty big diva, man.
Speaker A:Like, have you ever seen the documentary about him?
Speaker B:I've heard of it. I haven't. I. And I should because I. I've heard that they speak badly of him. It's like cringe worthy, right?
Speaker A:Yeah. Incredibly.
Speaker B:I've heard. I should watch it.
Speaker A:Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, It's a really good watch. If you like sort of awkward, cringy, mockumentary sort of stuff like that.
Speaker B:Oh, it's out. It'. Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's kind of. Yeah. Kind of like that sort of thing.
Speaker B:Yeah. Because he loved to portray himself as being all about love and kindness, but backstage he was a real diva, man. He was a real diva. He. He literally.
So I'll tell you the story. Robin Antin, who's the creator of the Pussycat Dolls, so she brought him in, so she sort of recreated him in Vegas.
So she built this show with them, this sort of big band and they. They had this lounge in. In Caesars. So this is the first kind of cool gig I got. I was his opener and. Or, sorry, I was his closer.
So after he was done, I would put the party on and, and, and I'm not joking, they complained about the music. They said, well, you play this old stuff. And. And his assistant's like, yeah, he really wants you to change up the music. And I'm like, his, his.
I'm just playing to his audience, like, you know what I mean? That's all I'm doing. I'm doing my job. Like I can play whatever music you want, but that's gonna. You know, his audience loves this stuff.
That's why I'm playing it. And that gotta get him out of here sort of attitude, right? Like, I was fired the next day.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Yep, yep. No, nothing. And that's after doing it for like nine months.
And that was because Robin Antin came in, saw the show and it was like, that DJ is playing all this old music and, and, and they're like, yeah, you got it. And. And just. Just as a starting. His assistant. Yeah, Robin Antin said, you know your music and I'm like, okay.
I mean, I can change it, but just be aware that, you know, this and this and, you know. Yep, gone the next day crazy after, like, almost a year. Right. But, yeah, so I don't. I don't.
I wouldn't say I have particularly fond memories of him, but. And that's rather ironic because these really big stars, I can honestly say the vast majority of them are very good guys.
Backstreet Boys, all of them great guys. Really, truly humble. AJ Especially, was very warm to me backstage.
Howie, Kevin, you know, not to say Nick and Brian weren't, but I just didn't interact with them much. Right. And that's the reality. I don't interact with a lot of them. Even with Ice Cube, I barely interacted with very nice guy Ice Cube.
But for the record, to a fault, truly nice guy. And his organization, his team around him, a people, just truly remarkable. His manager, all his camera, his crew, just amazing guys.
Speaker A:So with Ice Cube, yeah, he. His careers had kind of different phases and things. So what do you lean into most when you're opening for him?
Because you've got the old school, the sort of NWA era.
Speaker B:It's a very good question.
Speaker A:Lynch Mob stuff, and then, you know, the eras.
Speaker B:So let me. So. So this is a great question because As a concert DJ, you learn dynamics. Because I've done over 70 openings, you know, And.
And I'll give you the example with him. So my first concerts with them. So this is what I always ask. So this. This has tremendous impact on my set, which is. Is there ga?
And that means is it standing room in the front? And that has a huge, huge impact on how I plan my sets. Because when it's ga, what happens is it's a rush.
As soon as doors open, everybody wants those best spots.
Speaker A:Is that general admission?
Speaker B:Yes. Sorry, do you have a different word for it in the UK?
Speaker A:I just never know what.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Ga. General admission. Yeah. So that's standing room only at the front.
So what happens is every fan that's the huge fan, they actually prefer GA because it's the closest they can get to the star. Right. So they want to get close, which means they're going to be there the minute doors are open, which, as an opener, is fantastic. Right.
Because a lot of them have been there since, say, like, 4pm, so they've been waiting two hours. The artist is on it, like, let's say seven. So they have me come on at six. So the crowd is antsy. They want to do something.
So this is Where I get really ninja. I will actually go into that standing crowd that are bored, and, you know, a lot of them will recognize me or if my name's on the poster. If not.
I literally just introduced myself. Hey, guys, I'm opening for Ice cube in about 45 minutes. And they're like, first it's disbelief. And they're like, oh, wow. And they're like, yeah, man.
What you guys want to hear? Anything? And I'm trying to get clues. What are they like? They're generally younger. They're generally more enthusiastic. Right.
So they become my secret asset because when I start, I shout them out, I find some sort of thing, and I'm really trying to get some intel. And at the same time, what should I start with? And that is fundamentally different from when they're sitting, right?
Because when they've got seats there. So I'll give you a perfect example is in the UK, when I was doing Backstreet Boys, it was GA everywhere but the UK.
So in the UK, and believe it or not, at the O2, you're not allowed to stand in your seats. That is a vibe killer, man. As an opening dj, like, oh, this is gonna be rough, right?
Speaker A:You've got nothing to respond to, have you?
Speaker B:Yeah. And in fact, what was great when. When we were in Manchester, the crowd was so awesome that they said that they defied the rules.
They were having so much fun that they would just jump out of their seats. They were great, man. And remember, London was where Aaron passed away. So, you know, the crowd was somber too. So I got to.
You know, I was respectful of that with Nick. It was really tough. I actually made all the tabloids because what happened was there was no word.
Nobody knew whether the concert was happening, and I wasn't aware of that. So I post and I got instructions that everything was going to proceed, so I put it on. So after a while, I just posted it on my social media.
I didn't even know. And then I got 12,000 views on the story, and I realized, oh, my God, everyone.
Everyone's been looking at me and thank God I got it right, you know, so. And. Yeah, so. So there's these different dynamics. Every show, every artist and you. And. And you've really got to dive deep if you want to succeed.
And that's what gets the callbacks for me, right? They know that I'm. I've got the experience and the willingness and the excitement. Quite frankly, I. I love doing it. I. I really enjoy it.
Speaker A:I suppose having his set list as well would give you a lot more sort of indication of where he wants it taken to.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, with Ice Cube, for example, he. He's. He. Right. And I knew he was going to do his story. I knew it was going to be like nothing he'd ever done with the visuals.
And so even talking with his manager, you know, he wanted it to be 100% West Coast. And I said. And I pushed back a little.
I said, why don't we make it like 70, 80% West coast so I can add a little bit of unpredictability and I can add, you know, some surprises that pay homage to, say, local, you know, when we're in, you know, Cleveland or, you know, Toronto or whatever. Toronto was a tough one because we're west coast and, you know, with the whole Kendrick Drake thing, right? So.
And I always ended in the US with the Kendrick, not like us. And all the crew were like, you're going to play it in Toronto, you play it. I'm like, I'm not going to play in Toronto.
I got to respect my hometown roots. I was actually a really cool story. I was born in Toronto and there's a producer from the UK. His name is Jay Cactus.
I don't know if you've heard of him. He's big on YouTube. Teaching. Should look him up. So he's from the UK, but this is the crazy story.
He's actually Canadian and he was born in the same hospital as me, but he moved to the UK as a toddler. I think he was very young. So he's, you know, essentially he's British. Right.
But he was born and his brother still lived in Toronto, so it was super cool. So he flew to Toronto to do this experience with me and we actually made a West coast, sort of a neo West Coast. Eazy E beat Eazy.
E's son was on the tour doing his dad's parts. And then we met and we introduced. I introduced him backstage and now he's going to record on that with us. Is that a crazy story? Isn't that nuts?
Speaker A:Yeah, but I mean, with Cube, like, he's got his Bomb Squad album as well, isn't he? So he's got some east coast sounding stuff in his back catalog. Anyway.
Speaker B:His. His. Yeah. So his story's super interesting. Like, you know, his whole fallout with nwa he actually went to New York. He actually got his.
His producers and everything out of New York because he was getting so much animosity on the West Coast. Right. Again, another fascinating story, man of Ice Cube. Like, what he Went through. His sister was killed by the police at 12 years old. So.
Yeah, I didn't know that either. Right. And, and so all these guys have deeper stories than most people know.
And, and that's why I think these concerts are happening, you know, And I think a lot of the EDM stuff now, it's just, it's just very polished, very vanilla. Right. And, and when you look back, the stories were way grittier, man. And, and I must say, like, that's just my ethos too. I love it.
And that's what I tried to capture in my book. My, you know, I wanted. At first it was a lovey dovey. Everybody joined me and then I was like, nah, man, that ain't me.
I had to be authentic and I had to show the real story of just how hard it is and just what, what happens behind the scenes.
Speaker A:I think that something else that's in the book you talk about is combining hard and soft skills.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And being able to do that as a strength because it made me think of one of my friends who's really kind of techie and really good with computers and stuff, but he also was a salesman at a shop as well. And he's got really good interpersonal skills as well. To me, it's just an amazing combination.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah. And I was going to talk about AI in the book. I don't really touch on it. And this is where humans will win. It's these skill sets nowadays.
It's the Renaissance. Man or woman wins. It's having a variety of good skills. And most importantly, I agree with sales.
Sales are this very maligned skill set which I think are the most important, which is learning how human social lubrication works. Right. It's that ability to get in out of tough situations.
I mean, man, being able to talk yourself out of tough, tough situations under pressure, boy, that's, that's a skill set artists need if they're performing, you know, a lot of stuff.
I know this young woman here in Vegas and she had, she was so excited and, and it was EDC weekend and she had a slot and then she was bumped, but she had like over 100 people coming and she talked her way back into it. If she didn't have those skills, it wouldn't have happened. You know what I mean? And all that work for nothing, right?
Speaker A:Yeah. Another one that really sort of resonated with me is masterpieces are a volume game because you've got some numbers that quantify that.
So this, I guess comes into the economics and stuff. You kind of prove in it with examples.
Speaker B:Yeah. Like Picasso was a prolific painter and he got. The reason he was amazing is because he painted so much.
You know, even Leonardo da Vinci, like, it took him decades of study before he got great. I like to think of. I mean, obviously I'm not ever going to be as great as Leonardo da Vinci, but very much his style of studying everything.
Like he really, truly reinvented art. And he did that by studying the science of vision and light and how we perceive all of these things.
And you can really see a difference before and after da Vinci in artwork. Right.
And that's very much how I see myself as an artist, is I very much dive into the mechanics of DJing, but also the social psychology of it, the deep psychology within all of us and the tribalism that's happening, the status seeking that's happening. All these things are happening underneath the hood. And that's my ultimate.
I plan on writing two more books and, and one of them is going to be called Invisible Lines.
You know, and that's, that's what's happening when you're at a music festival, when you're at experiencing this genre versus that genre and what, what this genre considers important or that genre considers important. They're all, they're all based on these invisible lines that our human brains are very much programmed to look for.
Speaker A:There's one more sort of big thing that we need to get into, I think, which is what we will talk about with your dollars and cents section.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Because in your book, I do think, and we've probably touched on it already, what's interesting is how you look for the spaces people aren't in. So yes, you know, you're looking for those opportunities. You kind of look at it as well.
It's not how can I be this specific dj, it's like, how can I have a career as a dj?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And that's kind of. You've taken certain sort of routes because of that.
And I think that kind of leans into this as well in terms of how you look at the economics of being a dj, being a headliner versus kind of being on any other rung trying to make it as a DJ in that sort of rat race and the social media side of things as well.
Speaker B:Yeah. So there's a couple of things. So a couple paradoxes. I became the best DJ for Ice Cube by doing all this other stuff.
It's what truly sets me apart is I have this encyclopedic knowledge of west coast rap. So that's Easy.
But it's also introducing these elements of mixing from say electronic music or even country music that makes my sets that much more unique. And I apply that to just about every show I do.
So when I'm doing an electronic show, I'm at doing my hip hop elements, hyping the crowd, let's say, or something. Right. And truly, if you want to master your craft as a dj, that's what you need to do.
You need to develop this expertise in a wide range, even if you do just want a specialized set. So there's that. Then there's also the economics of it. Right. The likelihood of making it where your path is just stupidly unlikely.
It's just like buy yourself a lottery ticket, you got a better chance. Right. And I, and I show some examples in the book.
Like even just to, just to get the money of a minimum wage job, you need 5 million streams on Spotify. Like 5 million. Right. And that doesn't even include collaborators. So if you've got collaborators, that's got to get divided that many more times.
And so I realized the best thing to do was to create what I call a category of one where you are uniquely qualified. And then a magic thing happens. You become in demand, people ask for you instead of the other way around. Right.
Speaker A:So I guess what's difficult for a lot of people with that is working out what that category of one is.
Speaker B:Sure. And I would say to you. And so in the book I just, I call it. Are you familiar with ikigai?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah. The Japanese concept. Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's part of it. But as where I think I'm unique and I don't know of anyone else that's done this, there's also blue ocean strategy.
Are you familiar with blue ocean strategy?
Speaker A:I know the term, but if you could explain a bit about it.
Speaker B:So ikigai goes a little bit deep. It's a quadrant. I'll let people who are listening to this to Google ikigai.
And then Blue ocean strategy, I'll explain which is it's basically any competitive business which music is. It's actually more than that. It's a wicked industry, a wicked game, which I talk about as well.
But it's highly unpredictable and almost all the wins go to the people at the top. So it's in the book Blue Ocean Strategy, which was written by two economists. It's what's called a red ocean.
So the profits are minimal for the vast majority of people. So you need to look for a blue ocean. You need to see what a Synthesis of, let's say, DJing with something else that there is demand for.
And that can only be. And that's unique. And that's where you use ikigai to find what your unique lanes with that are.
And they have to satisfy certain criteria that ikigai asks for, right? Is it something the world needs? Is it something you can get paid for? Um, is it something you're passionate about, right?
So you want to get all these things and combine them with this lane that nobody else sees. And when you can do that, all of a sudden magic happens, right? And this, this doesn't happen right away. It didn't happen right away for me.
I just, you know, I was, you know, 20 something year old kid. I was like, I just didn't want to work at a bank, right? I was like, anything to not work at a bank. I'm in.
And then my buddy's like, we should do cruise ships. I was like, are you nuts? Like, why would they want to get us? Turns out they really, you know, blue ocean at the time.
Because, you know, literally, because at the time, the Internet's not what it was today. Like, you really had to dig to find these agents. I, I found one and then literally they needed a guy right away.
Like, the guy was like, the guy was like, I was like on the phone with him and he was like, yeah, are you ready to get started? I'm like, like when I'm thinking, you know, in a week or two, he's like, we like tomorrow, can I'll buy you a plane ticket?
Like, you know, I was like, oh my God, right? I need to say goodbye to my family. And. And then I was like, yeah, I have my partner, can he come too? And they're like, yeah, yeah.
Little did I know, they, they thought like, partner, partner. Which was hilarious, but, but anyway, yeah, he was my best friend and that's basically my strategy of that.
And I didn't even have a name for it back then. I say that a lot in my book. I didn't have a name for this. I didn't have a name for that.
And then as I evolved and now my next step of evolution is really connecting with people. And this is my brand, right?
Music is the answer, which is knowing that you're in the UK, you have fundamentally different upbringing, but we can relate. We've been talking for an hour and 17 minutes and just had this incredible conversation about music, which is so cool to me. Right?
And nothing on earth does that.
Speaker A:So what's next then? So we've Got that. So how, how far off is the book?
Speaker B:It's finished, it's being revised, which has been a longer process than I thought. The official launch date will be my birthday, which is Saturday.
Speaker A:Oh, amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah. I turned 50, so. And that's going to be the pre order and then the actual launch day will be July 15th.
And so between then, anyone who pre orders I will have as a book club so they'll get a chance to read the book. I'll be sending it in chapters. So yeah, a lot of my fans, and I have a lot of fans in the UK that are really excited about it. It.
Because I do have some cool stories from the UK and I have very, very dear friends to this day in London and Manchester, everywhere that, you know, that's truly. So what's next for me is that is turning this truly global.
I hope that book sales will be enough that it'll fund everything I'm doing to the point where I can say, hey, let's do a show in Krakow, let's do a show in Berlin, let's do a show in Manchester, you know, and the book sales alone will make up for, let's say, if I can't get the upfront costs to start. Because that's the hardest part of this business, as you know. Right. It's developing that.
So that's a huge upside of why I wrote the book and then starting this clothing line too. Hopefully people buy the shirts and it's.
Speaker A:An easy book to read as well, I've found.
Speaker B:Thank you. Yeah, I really had that in mind. I wanted people to enjoy reading it. And then I haven't announced this yet, but I may as well do it here. I will.
Of course everyone's asking, is there going to be an audio? And the answer is yes, but I have to sell a thousand books first. Once I sell a thousand.
And it'll be the coolest audiobook because of course, I'm an audio engineer. So I'm going to add sound effects, I'm going to add textures, I'm going to add beats, I'm going to add all kinds of stuff to it.
And then I'm going to interview a lot of the people from the book at the end of the chapters.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:Yeah, so a lot of them, you know, and of course the most tragic. I, I wish I could have done this with Scoop, man. It would have been so cool. Right? But that's okay. You know, he's look, he's looking down on me.
I hope he's proud, you know, I hope My dad's proud, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah. Amazing.
Speaker B:And. Yeah.
Speaker A:Right. Where could people find you on socials?
Speaker B:Well, my DJ name is K N O W L E D J. So Knowledge stylized my. My website is that so. K N O W l e d j.net and then on social media, on Instagram, it's Knowledge official.
And really the best thing is go on my website and it's got all my links to everything.
Speaker A:Cool. Amazing. Well, yeah, I think. I think that kind of wraps us up nicely.
Speaker B:Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker A:And I've really enjoyed this conversation. It's been really nice to connect.
Speaker B:Me too, man. You asked some fantastic questions. I really appreciate that.
Speaker A:Appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker B:Yeah, I really wanted to go deep in my story and you definitely did that.
Speaker A:Yeah. Amazing. Well, yeah, best of luck for everything with the book and thank you.
Speaker B:Hope to see you in the UK, man. You know, when I'm.
Speaker A:Yeah, let me know if you get over that.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, I'll let you know. Because I almost did right around now, but unfortunately it didn't come through. But I keep trying, man.
I got to get back to Europe, so.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, the world's a little bit crazy at the moment anyways in it, let's be honest.
Speaker B:Yeah. That's why we need it more than ever. We need it more than ever, man. We need to connect people. We need to humanize people. We need to.
I just had a, you know, conversation with my MP on video call. He's openly gay MP in Canada.
And, you know, he said the best way we could do this MP is just by putting people together in a room with no overt intentions. We're not trying to convert people. We're not trying to do anything.
We're just trying to get people to work together and see each other's human beings because. Because that's how we get. That's how we beat the demagogues. Demagogues are trying to other everybody. Right.
They're trying to make everybody the bad guy from the other group. And really there's good and bad in every group, right?
Speaker A:Yeah. Oh, yeah. There was just one more thing, actually that I found interesting and I was wondering if you could elaborate on.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:The term otrovert kind of resonated with me quite a bit.
Speaker B:You know what I have a feeling, and that's why I put it in there, is I have a feeling a lot of DJs are ultroverts like me. And I never heard of this term until this author came up with it. And I read the book. I'm a voracious reader, if you can't tell already.
And he described me to a T. I was like, I've never been assessed by someone who's never met me as well as this book. And he even uses DJs as an example.
In the book, he's like an O. Trovert is the kind of guy that loves DJing, but then after the show, he loves everybody. He's great with everyone, but he wants to go. He doesn't want to, like, party. He doesn't. I'm that guy. I've never. I love people. I love human beings.
I'm a pretty private guy. I'm actually. Believe it or not, you know, they talk about loneliness being an epidemic. I'm perfectly happy on my own, me and my son. I'm good.
I don't know how else to put it. I love friends. I love interacting. I love good, deep conversations. I generally don't like small talk. I'll be honest, you know, and that's a sign.
O verts are people that are easily connected but don't feel part of the tribe. And I. And that sums me up. And I highly recommend. Even Kaminsky is the author just going on his Instagram and I think he. He's got wonderful quotes.
And I highly recommend the book for anyone. And, yeah, I have a feeling a lot of people. That's why I put that in the book. I was like, you know, this is one of those things.
Where do I need to put it in? I was like, I bet you there's more people like this that are DJs and could relate to it.
Speaker A:Yeah, it'll be an interest. Interesting one to read about, but, yeah, amazing stuff.
Speaker B:Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker A:Thanks for your time.
Speaker B:Thank you. Looking forward to the front. You too. Take care. Oh, that was nice.
