Episode 59
Mark Rae pt 2: The Next Episode
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In this episode, we sit with Mark as he shares the tough times brought on by having to fold Grand Central and the need to distance himself from everything he held so close, before finding a new and cathartic path in literature.
He shares stories from his time in Los Angeles, a return to the UK, and the journey that writing took him on, culminating in his latest project New Town Ghosts, which sees him again pairing an album of original music with a novel.
We go deep on the devices and constructs required in storytelling, their parallels with songwriting, and much more, so strap in and get ready!
Mentioned in this episode:
Reissued classics from Be With Records
Get 10% off at bewithrecords.com using the code ONCEADJ
Transcript
Welcome back to Once A DJ for part two of the interview with Mark Ray.
Speaker A:In this interview, we really go on a journey through some of the sort of tougher times that Mark's experienced into his new ventures.
Speaker A:And we go sort of really deep into writing and discuss a lot of the sort of catharsis and everything around his new book.
Speaker A: of hopes and dreams in around: Speaker A:There was a shop in Huddersfield that I sent a few CDs to, but the main place that I wanted to sell CDs was at fat City.
Speaker A:So I run them up and I ended up going in and taking in 20 copies from what I remember on sale or return.
Speaker A:And so I drove over from Huddersfield to Manchester to hand them over.
Speaker A:And then probably a month later, I think I went to collect the money because unless I'm remembering this very wrong, they all sold.
Speaker A:And that was 20 CDs.
Speaker A:But those 20 CDs represented to me a lot of learning around print production, how long favors can take sale or return.
Speaker A:And just.
Speaker A:It was just a really sort of nice, exciting sort of learning experience for me.
Speaker A:And it's a little period that I remember very fondly just through the kind of optimism that I had around it.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And, yeah, the.
Speaker A:The satisfaction, I guess, of going to get that money knowing that those CDs had sold.
Speaker A:And, yeah, it was thanks to Fat City taking a CD from some random guy that I was able to do that.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I just wanted to mention that anyway.
Speaker A:And, yeah, I'll let you get to the show.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Once a dj, everyone.
Speaker A:We're here again with Mark Ray to follow up from where we got in part one.
Speaker A:Mark, how you doing today?
Speaker B:I'm good, Adam.
Speaker B:And yourself?
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm good, thank you.
Speaker A:I'm good.
Speaker A:Just mentally preparing for the school holidays.
Speaker B:Yeah, indeed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Get the cage and the nets out.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's get into it then.
Speaker A:So just to pick up from where we left off last time, we got to the point where I think the last thing we sort of touched upon was you were just talking about kind of the level of commitment to different projects you had, and that was kind of getting to a point, I think, of being sort of unsustainable.
Speaker A:We would talk about Sleepwalking in particular.
Speaker A:And you just felt like that didn't get as much attention maybe as it needed.
Speaker B:No, well, it wasn't so much that as I just.
Speaker B:I think that, you know, my self a and ring of it was capped at a certain ceiling because of the stresses of needing to deliver it to the marketplace with K7 actually an rip horse Wiedenmuller, who was the guy who released helped us release it.
Speaker B:So you look, you're always trying to do deals and you know, we were trying to release our own music and we used a company called Vital, who are a distribution company that were quite powerful and were part of Play It Again Sam.
Speaker B:And you know, behind the music there is a game of business and it's a tough game.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean you.
Speaker B:I often think about it when I look at the cycle of football management or management in sports.
Speaker B:You know, like people are really effective for like four or five years and then it might go stale or just like the patterns of behavior don't work.
Speaker B:And in the end, you know, things have a life cycle.
Speaker B:So I think it was quite natural that Grand Central was coming to an end.
Speaker B:And the only thing that would have stopped it would have been if that had discovered a hit record amongst all the stuff that we were trying.
Speaker B:And that didn't happen.
Speaker B:So therefore, you know, it kind of was slowly discombobulated by force really.
Speaker B:And then eventually the mcps said, we want to do an audit on you.
Speaker B:The MCPs collect a small percentage on sales in shops and then that goes through publishing.
Speaker B:But the problem was is that their accounting procedures at the time meant that every single record that I sent out of the country into Europe to the big markets of Germany and France, it was accounted on the way out of the door.
Speaker B:So if you sent 100 rein Christian 12 inches to France, the they would account for 100 times 7% of the dealer price.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:The problem was is that six months later France would send back 60 copies.
Speaker B:So therefore there was a gap of rather large amounts of the accounting with mechanical copyright.
Speaker B:But it wasn't owed technically, it was owed basically on their bad procedures.
Speaker B:Okay, so I'm telling the real story here.
Speaker B:So basically over time that though all those differences accrued and then.
Speaker B:And so when they came to break, break it down, they were like, you owe us, you know, £40,000.
Speaker B:I was like, no, I don't.
Speaker B:I said, I've lost money investing all these artists.
Speaker B:I've worked free for 11 years, you know, for the, for this business, managed people, created agencies, done as much as possible.
Speaker B:Everyone's worked really hard.
Speaker B:We don't owe you that money.
Speaker B:And they said, well, you're gonna have to pay it.
Speaker B:So I'd been paying it for a while and then they came in, they said, you owe us more money.
Speaker B:I'm like, we haven't got any money and it's over, so I'm gonna have to liquidate.
Speaker B:And the woman was like, what?
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah, because you're pushing me over the edge.
Speaker B:I can't survive as a small business.
Speaker B:I've lost most of my staff.
Speaker B:Cause we can't afford to pay them.
Speaker B:And this is it.
Speaker B:So basically I was working with a guy called Rick Martindale who was doing all of the accounting.
Speaker B:And one I rang up and I said, so, you know, we're going to have to liquidate Army.
Speaker B:And it's like, yeah.
Speaker B:So he, he rang up the mcps and the woman who'd forced us into liquidation started crying.
Speaker B:I just thought, what is this all about?
Speaker B:Like, you invest, you work for free, invest, you know, hundreds of thousands of pounds into a scene and music and in the end some London schematic money collecting society drives you into liquidation.
Speaker B:And it's like, that's why I emigrated to America because that experience was so dark.
Speaker B:I just thought, you know, you try and give all of your effort and love to develop people and then basically you get.
Speaker B:You get shot from behind by some bad scheme.
Speaker B:And that was.
Speaker B:That's what happened.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And that's why I emigrated to America.
Speaker A:So was part of that having to.
Speaker A:Because I guess the label and stuff, like it was so much part of the fabric of Manchester and stuff.
Speaker A:Was there a kind of feeling, the need to get away from the Manchester?
Speaker B:Oh, totally.
Speaker B:I mean, I'd already.
Speaker B:Actually, I'd already gone down to London because I couldn't.
Speaker B:I couldn't imagine me being able to.
Speaker B:To find new things that I could put through the label there.
Speaker B:Perhaps I could, perhaps I.
Speaker B:Perhaps it was the cycle of life and all the people I knew were getting older and people were having babies and it was just time for it not to be.
Speaker B:The next thing you know, I can remember getting demo tapes, some interesting kind of stories before Badly Drawn Boy was signed up to Excel via Twisted Nerve.
Speaker B:You know, Andy Votel brought him to me and we had a real good giggle listening to old cassettes of children with their voices sped up.
Speaker B:It was me and my mates when we were like 18, recording on cassette.
Speaker B:And then I listened to.
Speaker B:To Damon Badly Drawn Boy's Stuff and Like, I didn't get it because I was a hip hop freak, okay, and like a sampler and all this sort of stuff.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:So, you know, I could have signed Badly Drawn Boy.
Speaker B:It would have been completely the wrong thing to do and I would not have been able to deliver any success like XL would because, you know, XL tried to sign Ryan Christian as well.
Speaker B:They were on another level, you know, doing the Prodigy and such like.
Speaker B:But these are the stories from the battlefield of what happens when things are presented.
Speaker B:And then I also remember the Streets had sent a cassette in.
Speaker B:I didn't see it, I didn't listen to it, but my friend who is in the advertising industry was with the Streets and he said, oh, he mentioned me and he said, oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I sent him a demo tape and he never got back to me.
Speaker B:So, you know, like, there's always opportunities in the ocean of life, but, like, whether you capture them or make them happen or get lucky.
Speaker B:But I wouldn't have done the Streets any justice because, you know, I didn't.
Speaker B:I wouldn't have got it at the time.
Speaker B:It wasn't my space, it wasn't my A and R sort of flavor.
Speaker B:And these.
Speaker B:This is life, you know.
Speaker B:So I can remember watching early online, you know, all of the.
Speaker B:The sort of things that people might have said about Grand Central going on to, oh, samples, uncleared samples and all this.
Speaker B:It was the.
Speaker B:The story I said before was simply the mechanical Copyright Protection Society forced me into liquidation at a very tough time when I didn't have, you know, the, the burning glow of being in fashion or moving in a direction where I'd found a new fashion.
Speaker B:And it's a simple fact of life, you know, business.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I guess.
Speaker A:I guess if you were in Manchester as well, you're like, when for some reason something doesn't work out, I guess it's the same as with a relationship when someone's like, oh, how so?
Speaker A:And so going your partner?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, we're not together anymore.
Speaker A:And it's like, oh, you know, this project's not going on.
Speaker A:Some people are such a shame because it was so good or whatever.
Speaker A:And you just like, well, I had.
Speaker B:To get out of.
Speaker B:Yeah, and I had to get out of Manchester first just because, you know, a lot of the people who'd worked so hard for me and did a good job, you know, had to be let go.
Speaker B:But I, you know, I had no choice.
Speaker B:The money was drying up.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The game was over, really.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's like, it's like Dying before you're dead, to be honest with you inside, because, you know, I did it with a lot of passion and love and trying to drive forward and, you know, when I went to London, I was trying to find a way forward to keep it all together and in the end it was, it dissolved and was stripped from me, you know, and that's life.
Speaker B:So I thought, you know what?
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I'm not so fond of that experience.
Speaker B:I need to start my life again.
Speaker B:And I'm not exaggerating, I thought I need to completely start my life again because all of my friends who I had through music, all the people who had supported me and I'd supported them all of that, there's a, like a stain on that experience and only thing that would heal it would be time.
Speaker B:So I thought, I need to get out.
Speaker B:I didn't want to get DJ gigs in Europe, in the uk, after Grand Central had gone under, and then go around and having loads of people going, so what happened to Grand Central then?
Speaker B:Yeah, and then have to answer the question before the gigs or do that.
Speaker B:So I just thought, I'm out, I've got to go.
Speaker B:And what do I look at that now?
Speaker B:I look at that as a gift because I've had the experience of being sort of making a choice that is nowhere near as as much import as people who have to leave country for.
Speaker B:Leave countries for very bad reasons.
Speaker B:But basically it felt to me like I had to become.
Speaker B:To emigrate because it was done.
Speaker B:It was like, you know, a bit like people who had to go to Australia in the 10 pound palms era.
Speaker B:It's like, there's nothing, you're not going to have any jobs here, it's not going to be good.
Speaker B:Let's go and do that, let's start again somewhere.
Speaker B:So I went to Los Angeles to do that and there was some very important reasons with that.
Speaker B:I felt a lot of love from Los Angeles, from all the people who had had me over DJing.
Speaker B:And I thought, well, if I go there, I can also take a direction towards what I felt was inside me, which was an ability to act, an ability to write.
Speaker B:And it runs in my family because my, my dad's mum, who sadly died in her 20s, was on stage with Wilson Keppel and Betty and was a performer in the, in the music hall days of, of Britain.
Speaker B:So, you know, it's kind of in the blood and I just felt, you know, that's why Kate Rogers is such a great singer.
Speaker B:You know, this on the stage presence, you know, there's that link to us, which is partly genetic.
Speaker B:So there was that.
Speaker B:And I just thought, I can do that there.
Speaker B:And there was some people who really looked after me, lots of them.
Speaker B:Carly Eisman, who basically was part of a whole crew out there.
Speaker B:Lots of people were very welcoming and loved me over in America.
Speaker B:And I had a great time in Los Angeles where people looked after me, took to me, lots of different names.
Speaker B:Josh, Marcy, the people at Mo Phonics.
Speaker B:People gave me office space.
Speaker B:That's where I found Foster.
Speaker B:The people's Mark Foster.
Speaker B:And just people, you know, Heidi Lauden and DJ Harvey were over there, DJed for them a couple of times.
Speaker B:And it was like a real society of, you know, expats as mixed with Americans who are cool.
Speaker B:And I went over there and I tried to survive.
Speaker B:And the first thing I had to do to survive was dj.
Speaker B:So there's this chap called Zen Freeman, who's just a lovely guy, and he just took me under his wing and he said, mark, I'll look after you, mate.
Speaker B:You know, I'll get you some DJ gigs.
Speaker B:And of course, this is based on my past and the fact that he liked Rain, Christian and Grand Central.
Speaker B:And he said, come out, I've got this gig for you.
Speaker B:And it was this mad gig.
Speaker B:It was like.
Speaker B:I don't know if I can even get through explaining it because it's so funny, but it was like a downhill luge for the.
Speaker B:It was like an outdoor thing in the valley, red hot.
Speaker B:We were under a canopy and it was like Verizon, the people who are the phone company who had like a.
Speaker B:End of year, their best employees doing a downhill luge.
Speaker B:It was like something from a crazy movie, right?
Speaker B:So this is my first gig in America since moving there.
Speaker B:And there's this downhill luge going along, and then basically we're playing music, me and Zen.
Speaker B:It's really hot and it's.
Speaker B:It's cool.
Speaker B:And I'm.
Speaker B:I'm just enjoying watching him DJ.
Speaker B:I'm DJing.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The event organizer comes up to us and he says, hey, guys, man, we need to, like, make this go more.
Speaker B:Like, we need some hype.
Speaker B:Can one of you get on the mic?
Speaker B:And as Zen was like, I don't do that, I thought, all right, give it to me.
Speaker B:So then I went and I was interviewing people from Verizon as before they went on a downhill luge.
Speaker B:I was like, okay, so you ready?
Speaker B:I think, look at what.
Speaker B:Look at this new person I'm becoming.
Speaker B:I'M interviewing, employ, go down through a big sound system and.
Speaker B:And then DJing afterwards.
Speaker B:And I thought, yes, Mark, you're going to have to do everything to survive here.
Speaker B:You know, it's a big gap.
Speaker B:I could have been sat in.
Speaker B:I could have been Sat in the UK, DJing around and that slowly tapering off, or maybe something new would have happened.
Speaker B:But I took a big chance, you know.
Speaker A:Were you enjoying DJING at this point?
Speaker B:I felt like there's lots to learn.
Speaker B:Let's get right back to when that was.
Speaker B:So, basically, dubstep was coming out.
Speaker B:Obviously.
Speaker B:We talked earlier about jungle and, you know, reggae and dancehall being part of that.
Speaker B:I was quite interested in that.
Speaker B:There was micro scenes in Los Angeles.
Speaker B:Likewise, you know, in Silver Lake.
Speaker B:There was this.
Speaker B:There was this bar called Red something.
Speaker B:And, you know, there was a scene there of dubstep.
Speaker B:There was lots of under underground crews in la.
Speaker B:It's a massive city, you know, like.
Speaker B:So there was all sorts going on.
Speaker B:How am I going to get in there and fit in?
Speaker B:Well, basically, I lived in Venice beach, and I didn't.
Speaker B:I didn't really go and search out to be part of the dubstep scene, because that would have been, like, false, because it's not me.
Speaker B:So I just started writing screenplays and writing songs and learning guitar and ordering DVDs from Netflix, when Netflix was actually a physical product.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then, you know, learning about film and writing and thinking, you know, I'm gonna write some screenplays here, I'm gonna DJ and I will write some screenplays.
Speaker B:And maybe.
Speaker B:And I wrote a few of them all weird.
Speaker B:Like, you know, far too sort of British.
Speaker B:And this is part of me realizing that maybe I was a bit too eccentric for Los Angeles.
Speaker A:Had you done any formal training in screenwriting then or not?
Speaker B:Nothing at all.
Speaker B:But, you know, I felt like there was something in there that I had to get out, which is a good way to be.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't want to do things to make money.
Speaker B:I'm doing things because I'm trying to get something out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I knew that, and I had to support that as part of my mind to survive.
Speaker B:But I ended up moving up into this place where Janis Joplin lived, and I nearly set it on fire.
Speaker B:I went to get my hair cut early on, and basically this.
Speaker B:I put some eggs on to boil, to, like, boil them, you know, because I was going to the gym, I thought, I'll eat some protein as well.
Speaker B:So basically, I've decided to do the most stupid thing was to put some eggs on.
Speaker B:Then I just.
Speaker B:Then another thought thought, I can't get a haircut.
Speaker B:And I forgot to turn the eggs off.
Speaker B:So basically, when I returned, there was, like, smoke coming out of the back kitchen door.
Speaker B:And there was a message on the thing that said, yo, you.
Speaker B:Expletive, expletive.
Speaker B:You nearly burned this all down.
Speaker B:Signed Cosmo.
Speaker B:So he came over, he said, man, what are you doing?
Speaker B:There's eggs all over the ceiling, right?
Speaker B:And, like, black smoke everywhere.
Speaker B:And I think if that kind of incident is related to the experience with the mcps.
Speaker B:So my brain was slightly broken.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, it couldn't stay.
Speaker B:And, you know, obviously, aspects of ADHD and obviously my journey with mental health, that continued in Los Angeles, actually.
Speaker B:So I owe Los Angeles a lot.
Speaker B:Cause it not only nurtured me when I was damaged, but also it allowed me to get to the bottom of something that perhaps I would have never have solved about my own mental health and such like.
Speaker B:Which is very much part of my art.
Speaker B:So I'm here to be positive about mental health differences, you know.
Speaker B:So, yeah, so Los Angeles mad.
Speaker B:I was doing gigs.
Speaker B:I was doing gigs at this thing called the LG House.
Speaker B:So Zen's still getting me gigs, Some really good ones as well, you know, with Matthew Schreyer and people and Thomas Gulubich and, you know, all the people from kcrw.
Speaker B:Like, you know, it was great.
Speaker B:Such a weird life.
Speaker B:It was like living a life that you'd imagine, you know, I had this.
Speaker B:This old Mercedes car, and I was driving around in the sunshine, and it feels fantastic.
Speaker B:You know, for the first six weeks, it's like, oh, my God, I'm living the dream.
Speaker B:And then slowly you're like, okay, what is the dream?
Speaker B:You know, walking around Venice beach in the morning, and, you know, there's homeless people on the beach.
Speaker B:And I'm thinking, I'm out.
Speaker B:I got me fishing rods over.
Speaker B:So I got my fishing rods.
Speaker B:I was catching sharks off the beach.
Speaker B:Just living this kind of strange, interesting life.
Speaker B:But anyway, the LG House, so.
Speaker B:So Zen says to me, said, do you want to come and DJ in Malibu?
Speaker B:And actually, all of this is burned down now.
Speaker B:So my heart and love goes out to lots of friends, including friends who had the whole buildings burnt down.
Speaker B:And that was tough to watch, obviously, and obviously horrific to experience.
Speaker B:But LG House.
Speaker B:So this is what's strange.
Speaker B:LG are like, they.
Speaker B:What do they do?
Speaker B:They make phones, they make washing machines.
Speaker B:They make.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're like an electronic.
Speaker B:They make TVs so they had this idea that they were going to have this house that they bought or rented and have parties there all summer and they'd get Paris Hilton and all of the famous people to go to.
Speaker B:So Zen is like, you would come and DJ these parties for me.
Speaker B:And I said, well, what's the gig like?
Speaker B:He said, well, we start at like 11 and it goes through till 10 o'clock at night.
Speaker B:And I was like, mate, I can't DJ for 12 hours or whatever it is.
Speaker B:And he said, no, no, we'll do three hours on, three hours off, you know, literally like working on an oil rig, right?
Speaker B:But like, it's oil rig DJing.
Speaker B:And I said, well, then I've just had.
Speaker B:I've just had all my DJing, my cod fishing gear sent from England.
Speaker B:So I reckon in the three hours that I'm not DJing, I'm gonna fish the beach.
Speaker B:Because we were on the beach in Malibu.
Speaker B:So anyway, because I thought, you know, I'm not going to sit around with Paris.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:All these people had already picked up that the famous people in la, like, you know, you couldn't crack on like a Geordie joke teller, because they just look at you like, what are you going on about, man?
Speaker B:Or talk about the things that we talk about culturally in Britain as easily with Americans who are on the fame train because they're all either damaged or living in their own world.
Speaker B:So anyway, there I am, I do my three hours of the right Zen, I'm going out, mate.
Speaker B:So while he's DJing, I think there was Russell Simmons and like some really, you know, like Lou Ferrigno, Paris Hilton, and I'm catching sharks in front of the house while he's DJing.
Speaker B:And then all of the people, the famous people who had their children there, they all came running down to the beach.
Speaker B:I was catching these, like.
Speaker B:They're called guitar fish.
Speaker B:They actually.
Speaker B:They're often used as fake aliens in those memes of conspiracy theories.
Speaker B:They're actually just a guitar fish turned upside down and its mouth looks a little bit like an alien.
Speaker B:So anyway, and then suddenly all of these famous people wanted to know me.
Speaker B:They're like, hey, man, can we, like, come and do like, some of this fishing with you?
Speaker B:Like with my son, like on a.
Speaker B:And I'll pay you.
Speaker B:You know, it's like such a weird introduction to money and culture and I just want to jump to another story on that was like being.
Speaker B:I used to DJ at the Chateau Marmont, right, which is where citizen Kane bloke used to live?
Speaker B:Yeah, Very famous hotel.
Speaker B:And that's where I met Robbie Williams.
Speaker B:I was DJing one night and Prince came in and sat next to me, DJing.
Speaker B:And my God, his voice.
Speaker B:I gotta tell you how this is gonna.
Speaker B:I was like, who's that?
Speaker B:It was like Prince's speaking voice was incredibly deep.
Speaker B:So anyway, I'm DJing in there and this guy with like a toupee, you know, like a really small guy with a toupee, comes up to me with two blonde girls on his arm and it's like, hey, that song you played, what was it two songs ago?
Speaker B:Play it again.
Speaker B:And I was like, I don't play songs again, mate.
Speaker B:I just played it.
Speaker B:It's like a hundred dollar bill.
Speaker B:Hands it to me, right?
Speaker B:So I take it and I give it back to him.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm not take.
Speaker B:I'm not being bribed to play the same song twice.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:You see, all of these little experiences are part of learning a different culture.
Speaker B:Could you imagine?
Speaker B:I mean, that would be.
Speaker B:It's just almost like.
Speaker B:It's like just a strange example of fame and the weirdness of Los Angeles.
Speaker B:So anyway, that was early on.
Speaker B:I refused the hundred dollar bill.
Speaker B:Then I went to do Scottsdale NFL super bowl final with Zen, who got me the gig as well.
Speaker B:We're DJing.
Speaker B:This guy comes up to me, he said, play this song.
Speaker B:And I said, oh, yeah, I've got it.
Speaker B:And I said, well, I might play it later on.
Speaker B:And he hands out a hundred dollar bill.
Speaker B:By this time, I'd lived there for like two years.
Speaker B:And I was like, I'll take that.
Speaker B:And I played the song.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:It's like, it's.
Speaker B:These are like cultural differences between the experience of DJing, you know, being paid to play songs and like, at first being disgusted because you're British and money is dirty and we don't.
Speaker B:That's not.
Speaker B:That's not part of our scene, you know, Mr.
Speaker B:Toupeed Man.
Speaker B:But, you know, that was life.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And also Los Angeles, which in itself is a.
Speaker B:Is an intriguingly strange place full of lots of wonderful people, but it's also a struggle because it's based entirely on fame.
Speaker B:Whatever you think it is, it is.
Speaker B:And there's a lot of disappointment underneath the fame.
Speaker B:I remember Thomas Gulubich, who's a fantastic friend of mine, who married myself and my wife, basically said, LA has a river of disappointment running under it.
Speaker B:And that's a really neat way of putting It.
Speaker B:Cause it's true, there's always damage below all of the beautiful people who are, you know, you got.
Speaker B:Being an actor, you're being refused all the time.
Speaker B:So people are, you know, the value system is intriguing, but there's also the most beautiful people there as well, who really looked after me.
Speaker B:And the LG House is where I met my wife, who lives with me in Tunbridge Wells now.
Speaker B:So Angie Allgood, what she was doing at the time, she was working.
Speaker B:She had some incredible jobs.
Speaker B:She was working for Red Bull when I met her.
Speaker B:And her job was to take Red Bull into parties so that when Paris Hilton left the LG House party, she was holding a Red Bull.
Speaker B:And in that photograph, Red Bull got millions of dollars worth of advertising for now.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So you get used to all that kind of thinking as well.
Speaker B:And by the time that we left Los Angeles, you know, Angie, my wife, was working for MySpace while it was the biggest force on the planet on the Internet.
Speaker B:So you can see that in a way, you look at your career and you look at your experience of life with being an artist or, you know, being involved in the entertainment industry, that you.
Speaker B:You can plot the changes in culture and the Internet and how things work.
Speaker B:Because just before we came back, Angie was.
Speaker B:Was tasked with getting cameras that would be.
Speaker B:They were like the first.
Speaker B:They were like the size of a phone, but they were just a camera with a USB port at the back.
Speaker B:So basically she was getting those to all of the famous people of Los Angeles.
Speaker B:And I'm talking like class A list actors, actresses, so that they could film using this new device.
Speaker B:Remember, there's no iPhones with filming.
Speaker B:All the Nokias and the blackberrys don't film this device.
Speaker B:To film, to make content, to put on their MySpace channel.
Speaker B:So in that moment, MySpace had these channels, and every single artist and actor was like, hey, hey, MySpace, I want to get involved too.
Speaker B:So these cameras were made, and then that was also Angie's job to get the cameras out to these big stars so that they could start playing the game that we're playing a very small version of here on this podcast, you know, part of the journey.
Speaker A:So how far, in terms of the acting and the screenwriting, like, how far did you get with that whilst you were over there?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker B:You know, I did go to some acting classes, but I was so Monty Python against the Americans that I just left after a few weeks.
Speaker B:You know, like, we're trying to do, you know, off the cuff role playing and stuff.
Speaker B:And it's Just the stuff I was coming out with was not connecting with the Americans and.
Speaker B:But do you remember some, you know, you remember in life the things that people say that are important.
Speaker B:So one of them was a weird one with that band that did Ocean Drive.
Speaker B:What were they called again?
Speaker A:Lighthouse Family.
Speaker B:Lighthouse Family.
Speaker B:So I don't like their music particularly.
Speaker B:I know it's popular for a reason.
Speaker B:But anyway, I met him in a bar in Newcastle and he said we were talking about songwriting.
Speaker B:He said, you know, every song should have a reason to exist.
Speaker B:That's a very open statement, but I've kept that in my head.
Speaker B:What's the reason for this song existing?
Speaker B:And, you know, this acting guy in Los Angeles, he stopped like a session one day and he was like, listen, you know, have you ever thought about how brave you have to be to actually put yourself out there?
Speaker B:And I thought, and I've kept that as well, you know, is that a lot of people, when you, when you make yourself a public figure or you try and become a public figure, or you want to perform or you want to sing or you want to go on stage, it takes an immense amount of bravery because most people are held back by the fear.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Inside of them.
Speaker B:And then you've got.
Speaker B:No matter how bad or good somebody is at something, there's actually an underlying core value there which is bravery.
Speaker B:And you should always think about that when people are being negative minded minded and dissing people.
Speaker B:Remember what people do when they put themselves out there, they're prepared to expose their inner selves, which might be childlike or.
Speaker B:Well, we're all children in the end, aren't we?
Speaker B:You know, and in.
Speaker B:In that period in Los Angeles, I was invited to play football at Robbie Williams house.
Speaker B:And that was an extraordinary experience because I was playing football with like Frank LaBeouf and, you know, Steve Jones, the lead guitarist of the Sex Pistols.
Speaker B:One game I was in, There was Frank LaBeouf, Steve Jones, the lead singer of the Sex Pistols.
Speaker B:This is in just in my five Sight, Irvin, the Formula one driver, and then Brandon Ruth, who was the current Superman.
Speaker B:And I was.
Speaker B:I'm gobby on the pitch, right.
Speaker B:So basically, I think I was running around, you know, saying, superman, I expect more from you and things like that, just for a joke.
Speaker B:And Steve Jones was, you know, quite a quiet sort of scary kind of type of guy.
Speaker B:But this is the excitement of what LA can offer you.
Speaker B:But then also, you know, I can remember Rod Stewart's son used to come and play and, you know, the stories you Hear Tom Jones turned up one day, and I.
Speaker B:I said, oh, look, it's Millwall.
Speaker B:And he said, cardiff, actually, because he was turning up in a large jacket.
Speaker B:And I thought he was.
Speaker B:Looked like a football hooligan.
Speaker B:And he was lovely.
Speaker B:And then on that night, I went back to Robbie Williams's house with Tom Jones and basically just cracking on like lads, you know.
Speaker B:And Robbie got to know me a bit.
Speaker B:And then when I was DJing at Chateau Marmont, I had a yes, King CD.
Speaker B:Now, yes, King I did with Rhys Adams.
Speaker B:And this is a project that I did with Mark Jones from Wall of Sound.
Speaker B:And we went with Banksy to Jamaica, and lots of other artists were involved, and we made Jamaican music meet European.
Speaker B:It's called two Culture Clash.
Speaker B:Great project, Phenomenal experience.
Speaker B:But with.
Speaker B:With Rhys Adams and myself, you know, this yes, King project was like Jamaican influence.
Speaker B:We were living in West London at the time.
Speaker B:So, you know, we had Dawn Penn on there, who did.
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker B:We had, you know, all those sorts of things.
Speaker B:Ajaxique Maestro, the UK rapper, viber, Pete Simpson.
Speaker B:Lots of fantastic singers.
Speaker B:And so then.
Speaker B:So basically then I had the yes, King cd.
Speaker B:And I gave that to Robbie Williams when he came into Chateau Marmont when I was DJing.
Speaker B:Cause I was like, I've been playing football.
Speaker B:You know, you recognize me from his football pitch.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then literally, I had to go to Los Angeles to do a Bob Marley.
Speaker B:A Bob Marley launch, because we'd.
Speaker B:Yes, King had remixed a Bob Marley tune.
Speaker B:And then he.
Speaker B:I was walking down the street in New York, and then I got a phone call.
Speaker B:So I picked it up, and, like, someone started talking to me in, like, a fake Jamaican accent.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, who's this taking the mick?
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:And it was Robbie Williams.
Speaker B:And he said, mark, I listened to that yes, King album.
Speaker B:I want to be on it.
Speaker B:And I'm like, but it's already out.
Speaker B:That was a funny thing.
Speaker B:I thought, you can't be on something that's already out.
Speaker B:And then he said, oh, well, come on, let's do some stuff together.
Speaker B:So I did some songwriting with Robbie and.
Speaker B:And it was fantastic.
Speaker B:It's such a really genuine, talented guy and very, very clever and funny.
Speaker B:And he recognized that I was going through some troubles, as discussed.
Speaker B:As discussed with the collapse of Grand Central.
Speaker B:And also this kind of elements of ADHD symptoms, but then also quite strong emotional swings where literally I thought, this is not right.
Speaker B:Because, like, I'm starting to, like, teeter on the edge here.
Speaker B:Like, I'm.
Speaker B:You Know, it was seen when I was in London before I left.
Speaker B:You know, I was having extremely long stuck in Bell, sleeping during the day, you know, without any control of that, you know, for like six hours and just having no personality and then, you know, having other realms of it.
Speaker B:So around about this time I discovered that I had bipolar disorder and Robbie took me under his wing and basically looked after me and made sure I used to play golf with him like twice a week and we did some songs together and he was very supportive and I want that to be known about him because he's a really nice guy and I think only now is it being seen, the journey he's been on and how he's had to process his own experience of being in the public eye.
Speaker A:And I think, yeah, it was interesting with that documentary recently and.
Speaker A:And his kind of.
Speaker A:He put things on social responding to the comments made by.
Speaker A:I think it was their ex manager.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's quite interesting seeing because I always assumed that Mark was the youngest one.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But Robbie was really young when they were doing Take that and Stuff it.
Speaker A:You can't imagine going through that at that time, given that just how phenomenally huge they were as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, just.
Speaker A:Just another thing on Robbie I think is interesting as well as I was listening to the Barry White tune that sat this sample for Rock dj.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I just find that mad that they, they, they used a Barry White loop to make something.
Speaker A:Because that was a massive tune as well, wasn't it?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a fantastic pop song.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, it's not my taste, but I think it's great for what it's trying to do.
Speaker B:And it was the lads from Stoke that, that Robbie knew who did the production on that.
Speaker B:Who's one of them was in the candy flip.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do you know that Andrews.
Speaker B:The Andrews Brothers.
Speaker B:So I think.
Speaker B:I think Kelvin's brother had made that beat originally.
Speaker B:But it's funny that you mention Barry White because this is another like crazy little interior story.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So basically, while I'm hanging out with.
Speaker B:With Rob.
Speaker B:Rob and doing gol.
Speaker B:Playing golf, he's also doing camping trips and he's bringing like his chef with him.
Speaker B:And the chef are like this Scottish couple, like probably, you know, maybe in their late 50s, 60s.
Speaker B:And you know, I.
Speaker B:You get on with people.
Speaker B:Rob surrounded himself with great people.
Speaker B:Like there was a.
Speaker B:There was a lad from Sunderland who was his bodyguard.
Speaker B:Then there was a lad from Wales and they're all proper working class tough guys who'd been in the Marines and stuff.
Speaker B:So, you know, good people to talk to, you know, and then, you know, these people from Glasgow who are in their late 50s or maybe around then there would be.
Speaker B:Or remember the time difference.
Speaker B:They'd been.
Speaker B:They'd been Barry White's chefs.
Speaker B:So could you imagine the conversations we had?
Speaker B:I was like, so what was it like?
Speaker B:You know, cooking for Barry?
Speaker B:And they were like, oh, that was about tough, you know, because he was.
Speaker B:He was demanding stuff, like.
Speaker B:And I mean, it feels like I shouldn't maybe reveal this, but rip Barry, but, you know, like, you know, he had, like, huge loaves of white bread with, like, the middle cut out, filled with cheese.
Speaker B:That's what he wanted to have.
Speaker B:That's so you wouldn't say, you know, make me the most healthy food, which is what Rob was about.
Speaker B:You know, like, lots of fruit and good food to survive on.
Speaker B:It was like.
Speaker B:It was a long discussion about Barry's eating habits, which weren't too healthy.
Speaker B:But, you know, we all love Barry White, so let's remember him for his music, not for his sandwiches.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was reading his Wikipedia the other day, and.
Speaker A:And there's some really interesting stuff in there that I didn't know that I didn't know.
Speaker B:The gang stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It just made me think, there should be a biopic about Barry White.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:At some point.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Black.
Speaker B:He's a genius with only one fault, I would say, is that you should have never of.
Speaker B:Never have covered just the way you are by Billy Joel because it's such a lesser version than the original.
Speaker B:That's the only thing I'll hold against them.
Speaker B:Otherwise, everything else, perfect.
Speaker A:That's a fair point.
Speaker B:So, yeah, so look, that's all going on.
Speaker B:I come to an end.
Speaker B:I realized that.
Speaker B:That Los Angeles.
Speaker B:I can always remember Marisol Seagal, who's also very helpful, she said to me, don't get stuck there, Mark.
Speaker B:Don't get stuck here.
Speaker B:So do you know these little sentences that people say you.
Speaker B:A song has to have a reason to exist.
Speaker B:Think of people's bravery when they put themselves out there.
Speaker B:And then the other one, don't get stuck here.
Speaker B:See, this is starting to get into what makes novels work.
Speaker B:It's about the less information that you give people, and then they fill in what they think's going on, and then suddenly you're starting to do work with storytelling that's on a deeper level.
Speaker B:Okay, so that's a good point to make there, because I'm just about to come back to the uk.
Speaker B:Yeah, I get Married.
Speaker B:I get married to Angie.
Speaker B:I ask her to marry me on Bambra beach, where it turns out that Angie's one half of Angie's side of the family is from Northumberland, which is crazy.
Speaker B:Cause so am I.
Speaker B:So that's one of the reasons perhaps we get on.
Speaker B:Her mum's Mexican.
Speaker B:So basically we've got a lovely crazy Spanish Geordie thing going on there.
Speaker B:And basically we're back home.
Speaker B:Angie goes to get work in London.
Speaker B:Going back to talking about, you know, emigrating.
Speaker B:I came back to the UK and after three years, the gas board, the.
Speaker B:The television, the phone, the electricity, the.
Speaker B:Everything, I didn't exist.
Speaker B:And they were like, we don't believe who you are because you get wiped from the system, right?
Speaker B:And then they're like, well, where have you been for the last two years?
Speaker B:So really, I did make an attempt to never come back to Britain.
Speaker B:I didn't come back for three years.
Speaker B:Can you imagine leaving a country and not even going back to see your parents or anything like that?
Speaker B:They came to see me.
Speaker B:I honestly felt so strongly, wrongly or rightly, internally, that I didn't ever want to return to the country.
Speaker B:But eventually I realized I couldn't make Los Angeles work.
Speaker B:I was too eccentric.
Speaker B:And also I just couldn't make it work financially.
Speaker B:I just thought, I need to go back now.
Speaker B:I'll do an album with Steve and, you know, we've had a break.
Speaker B:So we did a Rain Christian album.
Speaker B:I started once, you know, you have these ideas.
Speaker B:So basically, before we flew back to the uk, I went around every thrift store, which is charity shop, every thrift store in inner Los Angeles, buying records to sample.
Speaker B:So you see, suddenly I'm like, right, it's production time.
Speaker B:And from those samples, we.
Speaker B: I'd make them on an MPC: Speaker B:In a West Hollywood kitchen, you know, thinking, this is going to be my way when we get back.
Speaker B:I'll, you know, I'll have a future with this.
Speaker B:And, you know, I.
Speaker B:I got in touch with Steve and said, you know, I'm coming back.
Speaker B:Should we do an album together?
Speaker B:And he was up for it.
Speaker B:And just before I left, I was in Mo Phonics Shout to Shelley and Steph and Josh, Marcy.
Speaker B:And basically I walked past this door and I heard this incredible voice, like, literally, like, spine tingling.
Speaker B:Who's that?
Speaker B:I opened the door and I said, hey, what's going on in here?
Speaker B:And it was Mark Foster, right?
Speaker B:And it was about six months before he wrote Pumped Up Kicks, which was, you know, it's got like, billions of plays on Spotify.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You remember the tune about.
Speaker B:No, about this.
Speaker B:Well, it's an amazing song, right?
Speaker B:Absolutely amazing song.
Speaker B:It's basically one of those songs that sounds all sort of full of happiness and like, sort of being in a groove and.
Speaker B:And then it's about school shootings.
Speaker B:All the little kids better run Run faster than my bullet Like Maxwell Silver Hammer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And just really, really brilliant songwriting.
Speaker B: So then got this NPC: Speaker B:Mark starts writing songs.
Speaker B:He probably does them in about half an hour.
Speaker B:And this is the phenomenal thing of.
Speaker B:Of how little time it takes to write great songs.
Speaker B:Like, if the idea is there can come out in five, 10 minutes, you know, even less.
Speaker B:It's just, you know, and I compare this to writing novels, because that doesn't happen like that.
Speaker B:So anyway, that he.
Speaker B:We couldn't finish the song because he did Pumped Up Kicks and then suddenly Foster the People became massive.
Speaker B:So we're trying to finish this song.
Speaker B:Eventually we do finish it.
Speaker B:We released the album on Nighttime Stories, which is part of Late Night Tales.
Speaker B:Shout to Paul Glancy, who released that.
Speaker B:And, you know, we.
Speaker B:We basically don't do it live because once again, it's got too many vocalists.
Speaker B:We just do one launch, and then I'm like, okay, I'm ready to tell my story about what happened to Grand Central.
Speaker B:So I start in the beginning in the 70s and tell my autobiographical story where I tried to make some shape of it.
Speaker B:You can tell that I didn't want it to be a story that was filled with all of the true feeling and emotion of having mental breakdowns, of having just such a dark experience.
Speaker B:I wanted to make it so that it was quite breezy and that it had the major facts that I felt belonged to my experience.
Speaker B:And so I did that.
Speaker B:And then when I started promoting it or online, I realized the stories I was telling with photographs that weren't in the book, which required a certain sense of creative writing, was far more enjoyable than writing an autobiography, because autobiographies, they.
Speaker B:They all the sentences start with I, and it's just not creative.
Speaker B:And then I went and did this and I did that.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:It's kind of like.
Speaker B:It's like it puts lead in your shoes, around in your boots.
Speaker B:So anyway, I decided that I was going to write a novel, and I thought, okay, what am I going to do with this and so just, just.
Speaker A:Before we go on to that then, was it a no brainer start?
Speaker A:Like did you when you did the autobiography?
Speaker A:Because even though the story's already there, it's still a big undertaking.
Speaker A:Did you have a long time, like had you been considering it for a while or was it just like you just one day just started it all out?
Speaker A:How did that process come about?
Speaker B:Well, as regards writing the autobiography, I'd had put it this way, you've got to find a central core theme about why you're doing something.
Speaker B:So I wasn't doing it to make money because, you know, that's.
Speaker B:I do art and basic, but I was doing it to heal myself because I felt still full of arrowheads from my experience and that I couldn't explain what had happened when really it was just life and the mcps and all these different things.
Speaker B:I wanted to explain it on my terms.
Speaker B:And I think that what I've learned is that, you know, the problem with that is that obviously with an autobiography people are looking for their own names.
Speaker B:They don't see the stories the same, they experienced it differently.
Speaker B:And I have very strong evidence of this.
Speaker B:My mum was an identical twin and growing up I had identical.
Speaker B:You know, I could mistake my mum for my Auntie Pat.
Speaker B:But they describe a journey or doing something in their childhood and they go, I don't remember it like that.
Speaker B:That's not, I don't remember that at all.
Speaker B:And that's very.
Speaker B:Another like one of those things to remember.
Speaker B:People don't see things the same way because we're all alone, aren't we?
Speaker B:Truly alone inside our own heads.
Speaker B:We have children, we have love affairs, we have wives, we have husbands, we have experiences.
Speaker B:But in the end we are alone in our heads.
Speaker B:And that's where things like, you know, mental journeys with mental health and what have you, in the end they become a journey of self really, which only you can truly, you know, unknit.
Speaker B:All the things that you have to correct yourself.
Speaker B:And a lot of people don't undertake that journey and remain on, you know, unchanged throughout life.
Speaker B:They solidify in a version of themselves.
Speaker B:And I was, I became aware of all of that.
Speaker B:So this autobiography is called Northern Sulfuric Soul Boy was, was, you know, Simon Armstrong at the Tate helped me put it together.
Speaker B:I had the artwork done by Jimmy Terrell, who's the brother of the lead singer of John Terrell, who's the Smooth and Terrell guy.
Speaker B:So lots of Geordie's involved, phenomenal artwork I used gave him all my photographs.
Speaker B:He made a set of imagery, and, you know, I just wanted to get it out.
Speaker B:And also I did a 10 inch record with that.
Speaker B:And I had a Tony D tribute on there because Tony D introduced us to drum machines.
Speaker B:I wanted to kind of like, say goodbye to that era on my terms.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So there's a selfishness in there, and I apologize to anybody who's like, why am I not in there?
Speaker B:Or there's not these people in there.
Speaker B:In the end, there's a lack of control when it's someone telling a story of something you experienced.
Speaker B:And in the end, I apologize to anybody who may have felt, you know, badly about it, but I felt it was me healing myself, and that's what I did it for.
Speaker B:Okay, so it's also, you know, when we're all dead and gone, there was a document where people can say, well, this person went through that and lots of these people were involved.
Speaker B:And that's a story.
Speaker B:And that's what that was.
Speaker B:But then it opened up this crazy part of my brain, which I tickled before with the screenwriting in Los Angeles, and I was like, okay, so I do want to do more writing, but I don't like writing about myself.
Speaker B:It's not that much fun, really.
Speaker B:And also there's all that weight of what other people experienced and if they feel misrepresented or left out or all these things.
Speaker B:And it's like, it's to be expected, but, like, it's.
Speaker B:It's just also like, in the end, you just say, well, look, I'm doing this on my terms, and I'm sorry if you don't like the outcome, because I've done it and I'm doing it and it exists.
Speaker B:And my son, when I'm not here, will go, oh, look at what my dad did.
Speaker B:And then all these people, where are they from?
Speaker B:Who's that?
Speaker B:Who's this?
Speaker B:And then there's a story.
Speaker B:There's a link, isn't there?
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:It's in the.
Speaker B:It's in the ether.
Speaker B:So basically, I decided to start writing the Caterpillar Club.
Speaker B:And this is where we start, in my opinion, to get interesting, because now we're gonna break outside of my music career.
Speaker B:People only wanna see you one way.
Speaker B:When someone gets popular or known, people see them that way.
Speaker B:So I'm Mark Ray, the DJ to some people, the producer to some people, the guy behind the counter in Fatsity to some people, the guy who did Grand Central, the guy in Rain Christian, all these different things.
Speaker B:And we all have different roles in our lives and they change over time.
Speaker B:So now I'm getting to this stage where I'm like, I've written an autobiography, didn't quite like it.
Speaker B:I like writing creative stuff.
Speaker B:So can I mix the two?
Speaker B:So I'm going through IVF at a very late stage in my Life.
Speaker B:My wife's 10 years younger than me.
Speaker B:We've got this window.
Speaker B:Gotta try and go through this window.
Speaker B:My.
Speaker B:My.
Speaker B:My mother is dying.
Speaker B:So basically My mother died six months before I had a child.
Speaker B:To IVF, the IVF took absolutely ages.
Speaker B: , an SP: Speaker B:I had to sell a Wurlitz.
Speaker B:I had to sell all my music equipment to pay for a child.
Speaker B:Is this not already kind of sounding like the structure of a novel or a story?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So therefore you've got somebody needs to get money to pay to have a child.
Speaker B:Okay, what's the next element?
Speaker B:Well, my grandfather died bombing Germany in World War II.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Seems like a bit of a reach at the time.
Speaker B:Some people are like, why is the German stuff in there?
Speaker B:Well, I postulated within this novel that the death of the music industry and the beginning of the Internet age would bring back fascism.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:And the way I did it was I was showing that a DJ who had lived in a certain era with organic records, he bought and was trendy because he had the records and it was all about organic pieces of vinyl would have a certain value set to him.
Speaker B:But once people all get music on their phones and wavs and all, just anyone can dj.
Speaker B:And I'd experienced this through Soho House at Portobello Road.
Speaker B:Electric.
Speaker B:Electric house there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:People would just come to you and say, play this record.
Speaker B:Instead of offering me a hundred dollar bill, they were like, play this record.
Speaker B:It's on my phone.
Speaker B:It's on my phone.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then, like, I felt like, okay, it's over now, right?
Speaker B:So for DJing, the value in what you used to represent is dead.
Speaker B:Okay, now listen, this is me talking my opinion to make a novel, right?
Speaker B:So you may disagree or feel dissed by this, but in the end, this is the way I'm trying to construct a story.
Speaker B:So this guy, he's gonna have that experience of, like, DJing with vinyl and then basically realizing that he can't do what he needs to do.
Speaker B:Five hour sets, people don't value what he used to be.
Speaker B:It's gone, it's over.
Speaker B:And then he switches to digital and starts using Serato.
Speaker B:And at the same time, the story is developing along the lines that he's starting to discover that all the doctors that are helping him with the IVF are German.
Speaker B:And at the same time, he's experiencing the digital change to digital DJing.
Speaker B:And basically what I was trying to postulate there, because I'd been to Ukraine, was that basically, would the creation of the Internet, while a DJ whose career has died from the Internet trying to have a baby, would his child be born into an environment where fascism would come back?
Speaker B: Now, this came out in: Speaker B: I was writing it in: Speaker B:I'd been to Ukraine, I'd been to Chernobyl.
Speaker B:I also went on to.
Speaker B:I saw battlefields from World War II and such like.
Speaker B:So I'm not trying to claim anything here because life is serendipitous, but in the end, I was trying to poke a stick at the idea that we were heading into waters whereby that things like fascism were gonna come back through the Internet and the power of its control over people.
Speaker B:And at the end of my book, the Caterpillar Club, he discovers that his grandfather had bombed Germany and therefore had killed women and children.
Speaker B:Which is true.
Speaker B:The thousand bomber raid my grandfather was involved in, where two and a half thousand German civilians were killed and that.
Speaker B:But basically the people who are trying to help him, who are German, actually had captured their family, had captured him, and basically they were trying and killed him.
Speaker B:And therefore they were trying to make a bond to heal that moment.
Speaker B:So there's a twist within that.
Speaker B:But basically, in the end, as the baby's being born, the Maidan riot is happening in Ukraine.
Speaker B:And that is a very important point that's only a sentence long.
Speaker B:Just like someone will tell you, every song has to have a reason.
Speaker B:Have you ever thought about how brave it is to go on stage and all those little moments don't get stuck here.
Speaker B:And so these little things that hang that are just a couple of words in a book and what you're trying to work with.
Speaker B:So basically, I don't think I was good enough as an author to really make all of that work.
Speaker B:Or maybe I was.
Speaker B:Whatever it is, it's not my time at the moment because it takes a lot to hand someone a song and say, listen to this, an MP3.
Speaker B:Listen to this easy a streamed thing on SoundCloud.
Speaker B:Oh, God, the first 30 seconds.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's good.
Speaker B:Or you don't bother, handsome.
Speaker B:On a book, that's like saying, will you climb inside my slightly damaged brain for two days Or a week.
Speaker B:And that's a massive ask.
Speaker B:So in me being able to talk about the thematic aspects of my novels, you can see that I'm trying to blend what's happened in Europe and my family and my experience of art and DJing and culture and how it's starting to become part of what the Internet's done.
Speaker B:And also the Internet allowing me to be self published and all these different changes, allowing me to tell these stories that don't go through normal publishing houses and are very niche.
Speaker B:So there's a lot going on there.
Speaker B:But I think it's important that I want to talk about this stuff because there's a story within me that is kind of.
Speaker B:It's of its time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:So I can do self publishing.
Speaker B:I can put it on Apple, I can put it on, you know, all the different.
Speaker B:I can put audiobooks out.
Speaker B:I can do all this stuff.
Speaker B:You know, thinking about that 10, 15, 20 years ago, they'd be like, what?
Speaker B:You know, I can self publish easily.
Speaker B:I can use Bandcamp and I can use Shopify to reach my crowd.
Speaker B:These are all modern stories that couldn't have happened before without shops.
Speaker B:Now, I don't really need shops, but I do want shops.
Speaker B:I love shops.
Speaker B:I need them to support me.
Speaker B:But I need to draw people.
Speaker B:Like a DJ gives out flyers in the beginning of my story.
Speaker B:I need to draw people to the stories I'm telling.
Speaker B:Not because they're about me or whatever, it's because I'm.
Speaker B:I'm making art that does have a link to what we've all lived through.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And just going back to that point about bravery, did you feel any nervousness?
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker A:You're someone that's from the world of music.
Speaker A:You've got a track record with it.
Speaker A:You know, you're kind of established in that.
Speaker A:Is it quite scary, then?
Speaker A:Because I think as well, even with sort of not a biography, you know what your story is.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's kind of pinned back to that world in which you are established to then go into writing fiction.
Speaker A:You're kind of almost laying yourself entirely bare again.
Speaker A:Is that quite a sort of nervous thing to do?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Seems like it's a bit of a theme of my life.
Speaker B:It's like, I will not stand on top of the bell curve or on the downside of it, where I'll make money.
Speaker B:I will be the beginning of the bell curve, because I want to stretch the envelope.
Speaker B:I want to do things that haven't been done before, because there's A little quirk in my mind that I think that if I'm trying to do something new, then it's the same as finding a sample for the first time and flipping it.
Speaker B:And then my response to that would be, people be like, whoa, what's that?
Speaker B:He's looped.
Speaker B:Where's that from?
Speaker B:My head still works like that.
Speaker B:So with Newtown Ghosts all having me singing 10 tracks with a choir and, you know, musicians, that's all new for an author to do that.
Speaker B:I don't go around shouting about that.
Speaker B:But basically, I'm still trying to do new stuff.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So just.
Speaker A:Just one more note on Caterpillar Club before we come to Newtown Ghosts, as.
Speaker A:As per your sort of suggestion.
Speaker A:I read that.
Speaker A:The first chapter.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it just summarizes like.
Speaker A:Like my audience will love that first chapter because it's everything that's about DJing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All in just, like, a few pages.
Speaker A:You're like, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker A:I get that.
Speaker A:Why am I still trying to do this again?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because it's, you know, succinctly so.
Speaker A:It gets into what it is versus what it used to be, and I guess what some of us feel it should be.
Speaker A:But, you know, time moves on, things change.
Speaker B:It's a core part of your podcast, though, isn't it?
Speaker B:And that's what appeals to me to being on here and why I wanted to get to the Nitty Gritty with you.
Speaker B:So, yes, the Caterpillar Club does begin with someone doing a guy called Simon Radcliffe doing a DJ gig.
Speaker B:And it is Electric House.
Speaker B:And it's him being abused.
Speaker B:It's him realizing that.
Speaker B:It's like, you know, you'd have to read it, but, like, it's all the things, if you've been a dj, that you may have experienced that then also this particular era when it was changing to when you realized that the power was within people on the dance floor who don't really like music waving their phones at you, saying, play exactly what I want.
Speaker B:And your power had been taken away from you.
Speaker B:I remember Mr.
Speaker B:Scruff, who's a good friend of mine, who've obviously done tracks with him, he said, now they expect the DJ to sweep the floor at the end of the night.
Speaker B:And obviously, Andy's a phenomenal DJ who has his own, you know, niche in.
Speaker B:In British culture and worldwide culture as a phenomenal music producer and dj.
Speaker B:But he.
Speaker B:He again said one sentence which.
Speaker B:Which catches the.
Speaker B:The way that it was going, it was like, what you do, anyone can do.
Speaker B:I'll talk really Rough here.
Speaker B:Cause that's how it needs to be.
Speaker B:What you can do, anyone can do.
Speaker B:Your money's going down, we don't care, we'll get somebody else.
Speaker B:And also that girl over there, her phone has the power to get every rare record on demand.
Speaker B:If you can remember the name of it on search on Google and it can be played.
Speaker B:So what's up Mr.
Speaker B:DJ?
Speaker B:Your time is up.
Speaker B:Yeah, and that's not fully true, is it?
Speaker B:You know, when I'm watching boiler room sets, I think, well, this doesn't look like the world I remember, but that's what it's become.
Speaker B:And things adapt and listen.
Speaker B:Music is phenomenal at the moment and always has been.
Speaker B:It's where you are in your life that you have a bad or good attitude about it.
Speaker B:You just have to jump around.
Speaker B:If dance music's not particularly good, listen to singer songwriters or go back in time or look for other types of music that interest you.
Speaker B:It's your problem if you think music's bad.
Speaker B:It's getting better all the time.
Speaker B:It's just more access.
Speaker B:And also the songs that were classic, you know, they were classic in your youth.
Speaker B:That's what you're clinging on to, your youth.
Speaker B:You know, I've had a, I'm working with a chap called Eric Miles in Tunbridge Wells here and he's 22 years old and you know, you know, I k.
Speaker B:I get him lots of songs to sort of show him some history and some of them I'll play them and they were like, I feel like I'm going to get a big reaction from him.
Speaker B:And they're like, oh no, that one, that one kind of doesn't really bang anymore because it's four.
Speaker B:It's a 40 year old hip hop record and it just sounds quite junky, but to me, in my spiritual central soul, it still bangs because it's connected to the memory of when I first heard it, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I guess you get for younger people, they're used to this kind of these ridiculously low noise flaws.
Speaker A:This, the dynamic range stuff that we were talking about.
Speaker A:Music's just loud, louder and it's just.
Speaker B:It'S, it's more separated.
Speaker B:It's, it's just incredible.
Speaker B:I mean, and I suppose for a listener to sort of postulate that question is, can you imagine, you know, watching a movie from 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, and looking at the special effects or the, or the finishing and then you look at stuff now and you're like, wow, the actual Bit rate, the pixelation, everything is just extremely.
Speaker B:On such a powerful level that it's.
Speaker B:And then you get used to it.
Speaker B:And then when you watch footage of sport or something from 20 years ago, even, whatever, it looks terrible and you're like, wow, did we really watch it like that?
Speaker B:But you see, you get used to what's new.
Speaker B:And I think that the songwriters out there at the moment, there's some of the best we've ever had.
Speaker B:So I'm all for it.
Speaker B:I love modern music.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think that comes back to what you said before about the autobiography and being able to separate who you are now and kind of not.
Speaker A:Not being defined by who you were at a certain point.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's.
Speaker A:That's an important thing for a lot of us.
Speaker A:And I think sometimes when people are just like, yeah, oh, modern music's.
Speaker A:It's because they're still in their head.
Speaker A:They're the person they were a long time ago.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And some, for some people, it's just where they felt the most confident or the most happy or, you know.
Speaker A:But, yeah, everything changes, like you say.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, this is.
Speaker B:None of this is a negative towards people who live and breathe their records.
Speaker B:I still correct records, I still listen to vinyl.
Speaker B:I still reminisce on those times.
Speaker B:It's not about that.
Speaker B:It's about the challenge that faces.
Speaker B:For instance, if you are a plumber or an electrician, and then suddenly the government says, we don't want any more Electricians because it's all being done by these robots.
Speaker B:You've got to sit down, like we all did as DJs and record labels, and go, who am I?
Speaker B:And therefore, it's not specific to music.
Speaker B:It's not specific to anything.
Speaker B:It's everybody's journey in life.
Speaker B:At some point when you leave school, you've got to become an adult.
Speaker B:At some point when you're an adult, you've got to change jobs.
Speaker B:At some point, if you're lucky enough, you'll have children and then you've got to become someone else.
Speaker B:Then you've got to watch them becoming somebody.
Speaker B:Then you've got to work out who you are and then eventually we're gone.
Speaker B:Right, so it's just a journey, though, isn't it, like.
Speaker B:So you've gotta make sure that you fill your journey with love.
Speaker B:And in my case, I like to pass on or share what I've been through.
Speaker B: Ghosts My new novel is set in: Speaker B:It's a mind squirrel that goes around his head and it means that when he's in class, instead of listening to maths or English, he's imagining where all the newts are going to be and the frog spawn and where to get owls eggs.
Speaker B:He's not in his lesson because his mind's doing other things.
Speaker B:I mean, you could call it daydreaming, but you know, I'm trying to work with what I see around me.
Speaker B:And basically I wanted to explore being a child again in the era that I had experienced.
Speaker B:So I went off in, I went off social media, 90% off it for four years to write Newtown Ghosts.
Speaker B:And I felt I had to do that because I couldn't be someone who was taking part in that world and also be 10.
Speaker B:So I became 10.
Speaker B:And I wanted to talk a little bit about, about this, you know, just to show you how deep I go, let's going back to the Caterpillar Club.
Speaker B:This is an early computer, the same one that was used by my granddad to find cities in Germany, okay.
Speaker B:And it's called a navigational computer.
Speaker B:And it basically allows you to, to find places, right?
Speaker B:So that's the first iPhone, okay?
Speaker B:But you know what I mean, I get deep into.
Speaker B:I get deep into what I'm trying to describe.
Speaker B:Because if you don't, then you're not doing work, right?
Speaker B:I'm not trying to make novels that are, you know, I've done no courses on trying to make things a certain shape because I wanted to be an artist and just let whatever come out.
Speaker B:But there is a thematic shape to writing songs that you have to learn if you're a hip hop guy, at first you loop, you loop tracks, right?
Speaker B:And then you go rap over that.
Speaker B:And what we're gonna do for a chorus, we'll just get scratch chorus, right?
Speaker B:But then you start songwriting, it's like, okay, I need a verse, I need a pre course, need a course on, and me need a middle eight.
Speaker B:Those things are kind of manipulable a bit, but they're kind of givens in the world of structure.
Speaker B:Now those structures, Excuse me, I'm just getting some items so you can see what I did for Newtown Ghosts.
Speaker B:So basically those structures work in thirds, okay?
Speaker B:So basically a verse is a third, a chorus is a third, and then you've got a middle eight and Pre chorus, that equals another third.
Speaker B:And the same things happen in theater plays and films and tv.
Speaker B:It's like, you know, you've gotta have an intro, you introduce the concepts.
Speaker B:Then there's gotta be an incident and there's gotta be a resolution.
Speaker B:And they all have a shape and people can mess with that shape.
Speaker B:But if you try and, you know, like, for instance, dance music often has no structure.
Speaker B:But then it's like, you know, still the arrangement has to tell a story, otherwise it's boring.
Speaker B: Newtown Ghosts, I go back to: Speaker B:I've got one child who's got undiagnosed ADHD, whose mum has got rheumatoid arthritis.
Speaker B:She has to go in a wheelchair in the story.
Speaker B:And then his best mate is called Squeaky, is underfed and he's developing rickets.
Speaker B:And basically he doesn't think he's got a dad and his mum drinks baby sham, right?
Speaker B:So I've got all these different things going on.
Speaker B:I have to set all of the structural points.
Speaker B:I had to get all the comics from my childhood.
Speaker B: to the Desperate dan Club in: Speaker B:I had to kind of check out pictures of myself from that era, right?
Speaker B:And then basically, this is just a way of explaining how character is built.
Speaker B:So you've got three characters in the book who are 10 years old.
Speaker B:One's called Rubber Knees.
Speaker B:Cause he jumps off garages and lands on his knees.
Speaker B:And basically, if you know Tish Mertha, the photographer, she has a photograph from Newcastle in the late 70s, early 80s of kids jumping out of Newtown buildings onto mattresses.
Speaker B:And that's basically the sort of world I would see now and again in Newcastle.
Speaker B:But on the New Town, it was nicer, but you had very little to do.
Speaker B:So let's jump off Garages, in this case, would land.
Speaker B:This guy would land on his knees.
Speaker B:And that was his name.
Speaker B:So I had Rubber Knees.
Speaker B:And Rubber Knees got a comic called Bullet, right?
Speaker B:So basically, in this comic, there's.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker B:I have to give him a favorite strip to give it a sort of his personality, some kind of depth.
Speaker B:So he likes a strip called the Mice of Tobruk, which is about children being in tunnels in World War II.
Speaker B:All of these comics from the 70s are filled with World War II because we'd just come out of it, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, it was only 20 years earlier or whatever.
Speaker B:20, 30 years earlier.
Speaker B:The lead character, Simon, gets monster fun.
Speaker B:He's a slightly softer Guy, the one with the adhd.
Speaker B:And then Squeaky gets action, which is a comic that's, you know, got blood all over the COVID and Jaws and sharks and hook jaw and people being eaten and teeth falling out.
Speaker B:And, you know, I basically had to build the characters through the comics.
Speaker B:My memory of the new town I've got, had loads of slides here where I'm building up my memory.
Speaker B:I had to buy equipment.
Speaker B:This is the Grand Tac Coyote skateboard, which the boys really want because they go to see Jaws.
Speaker B:Go to see Jaws.
Speaker B:And before the, before they watch Jaws, there's a short film about skateboarding which actually happened in my life.
Speaker B:I went to see a film in the 70s and there was a half an hour show about skateboarding on before.
Speaker B:And honestly, my mind was absolutely blown.
Speaker B:And I ended up living on the street, which was in that film, in Venice Beach.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:So basically I saw and this little ring true with people who've fallen in love with Americana and music and culture and black music culture and hip hop and jazz and soul and all those things that we were obsessed with when we're growing up as DJs, you know, it started with me and all of us, you know, with Americana when we're growing up.
Speaker B:You know, you had Dukes of Hazzard and you had the bionic man, the $6 million man.
Speaker B:So I saw this skateboard movie and I just saw all these kids with tans and blonde hair going around dried out swimming pools and it just burned.
Speaker B:Such an incredible indelible image of warmth and incredible experiences of American kids being free and different to us.
Speaker B:You know, this is post war Britain, new towns being built.
Speaker B:You'd go into town and there'd be coal houses and outdoor toile and, you know, rough people and tough people and loving people.
Speaker B:But basically it was so different to what we were being shown on the cinema screen.
Speaker B:It's like, where's that place?
Speaker B:So the fact I ended up living at the home of skateboarding while I was there, you know, shows another arc in the story.
Speaker B:So I kind of wanted to give.
Speaker B:The MacGuffins is a term used in screenwriting and film where you have to give a reason to get to the end of the book.
Speaker B:And sometimes it actually, you're never told why.
Speaker B:So I think in Pulp Fiction it might be like a suitcase with something in it, but you never find out what's in the suitcase.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Now, that's a trick of the storytelling world.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's a bit like.
Speaker B:It's almost.
Speaker B:To me, it's like doing a song without a chorus and then you just keep listening and the rap keeps going.
Speaker B:I was like, the story's building and building, but then you never get the reward of the chorus.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Some films do that and some books do that, where you're like, I've been taken on this long journey and then we don't get rewarded in the end.
Speaker B:I wanted to avoid that.
Speaker B:So basically, the kids want to get a skateboard.
Speaker B:They've got to win a fishing competition to do that.
Speaker B:We've got a parent who goes in a wheelchair.
Speaker B:We've got a kid who thinks he hasn't got a dad.
Speaker B:We've got a gang who attack them with hammers in a tent.
Speaker B:And it's about coal mining and basically how the new town is built on top of the past.
Speaker B:And underneath the past there's dead bodies from the digging of coal.
Speaker B:Now, to me, there's a link to that in that when you're digging for records and you look at all those old faces, they're forgotten artists.
Speaker B:They're people who didn't get a chance to be famous, maybe because they're underground records.
Speaker B:But then when a hip hop person takes it and samples it, it's like they're taking them and giving them a chance again, you know?
Speaker B:So I think this kind of light and shade, this the past and the future, is where we work with time and narrative, you know.
Speaker B:So writing an autobiography is about the past, it's never about the future.
Speaker B:Writing the Caterpillar Club was about making a baby that was gonna inhabit the future.
Speaker B:Is our future safe because we've lost it from the Internet?
Speaker B:Is fascism gonna come back?
Speaker B:That was the question.
Speaker B:Is it the canary in the coal mine?
Speaker B:Is the music industry and DJing the canary in the coal mine and that the coal mine is actually the world?
Speaker B:And we're all gonna end up in a lot of trouble because of the Internet.
Speaker B:Music was first with that, if you remember streaming, stealing MP3s, Napster.
Speaker B:I remember Napster ringing up Grand Central and saying, we wanna do this officially now.
Speaker B:We've been doing it illegally, you know, they must have rang up every record label that had copyrights at the time.
Speaker B:I've seen that.
Speaker B: I'm going all the way back to: Speaker B:There's pollution.
Speaker B:My dad used to work for the Water Board and basically there was a company called Brentford Nylons that used to put nylon dye into the River Blythe.
Speaker B:So basically, as I was growing up, my dad would come home and say, oh, God, the River Blythe was green last night.
Speaker B:What's happened, dad?
Speaker B:Oh, well, the nylon factories just sent all their dye in.
Speaker B:I'm gonna have to stop them.
Speaker B:Then it would go red.
Speaker B:And then I, in the book, I play with the idea that the red that comes in the River Blythe is actually from the blood of the people in the coal mines.
Speaker B:And I'm using all of these counterpoints of reference and argument.
Speaker B:So there's like the.
Speaker B:The rivers will be next, son.
Speaker B:Are people going to be treated like they die down the coal mining era?
Speaker B:Well, the rivers will be next, son.
Speaker B:Look at all the pollution we have now and the arguments going on about that.
Speaker B:The same issues and the same things happen to us, all the same things happening again.
Speaker B:So in this one, mental health, adhd, parental love and power, caring for a parent, ill health in parents, how children are affected by all these things.
Speaker B:But the most important thing is in the end they do get a skateboard.
Speaker B:But his mate, his mate moves away just as he's got the skateboard.
Speaker B:So he gives it to him and that's it.
Speaker B:He loses his friend.
Speaker B:He finds out that his friend actually has got a dad.
Speaker B:And that is built up all through the book, right?
Speaker B:So I've played with all the different narrative parts of putting the counter arguments in the structure of the narrative there.
Speaker B:And at the very end, they meet in their 50s because he's tried to buy the same skateboard off ebay.
Speaker B:And he goes, hang on, that's not you.
Speaker B: And he hasn't seen him since: Speaker B:And they meet and they have a very powerful, warm meeting where you realize that you can heal friendships from the past and that life does have a positive outcome.
Speaker B:And that to me, as a novelist and as an artist, it's my high point because not only that have I made a novel work from a childhood and an adult point of view.
Speaker B:I've dealt with mental health issues and done it in a very nice way.
Speaker B:I'm prepared to share my journey through it and also how it can affect children and watching for it in children so you can support them.
Speaker B:And then also I've given it a positive end.
Speaker B:And not only that, you know, I've made a 10 track album which I wrote the songs and then have sung with the Vox Pop Choir here with Steve woods and Tunbridge Wells.
Speaker B:Lance Thomas on bass from Liverpool, Danny Ward, a drummer who was in Rain Christian in Manchester, Rory Simmons with horns and strings.
Speaker B: r who's fixing his car in the: Speaker B:So really, barring it being made into a Netflix series or a film, I've done all the other work that you could do.
Speaker B:And that links to me being in Los Angeles, doesn't it?
Speaker B:Because I was wanted to write screenplays.
Speaker B:So I found a way of making the world work for me with my mental health issues.
Speaker B: I can create: Speaker B:And I've used that to make music and a book that has a positive message about the environment, about childhood, about childhood friendships, because I recognized very strongly.
Speaker B:And this happened as we moved from London to Tunbridge Wells.
Speaker B:I picked up my son from school.
Speaker B:The lorries had brought all of the house's contents, the records, the sofas, everything, the day, you know, during the day.
Speaker B:But I had to stay back to get my son from school.
Speaker B:And as I picked him up, he turned and he looked at the school and he started to cry.
Speaker B:And he said, but I won't see Zach anymore.
Speaker B:And then he.
Speaker B:And then he swallowed it.
Speaker B:So watched him start to cry.
Speaker B:Then he swallowed it.
Speaker B:Then he got in the calm, he left.
Speaker B:And then it started to rain, just pouring down like immensely, like torrential.
Speaker B:And then we got to Tunbridge Wells and I just.
Speaker B:When I was writing this book and I wrote a song called Moved Away that's on the album.
Speaker B:And it captures that moment that I saw through my son.
Speaker B:Because then I remembered that when I moved from Cramlington, which is where this new book is set to Ponteland, it was like a nine mile bike ride.
Speaker B:And I rode back like three times a week for like a year because to see my friends, because I didn't want to let them go.
Speaker B:And then eventually I did let them go because your life's changed.
Speaker B:But then I realized everyone has to move, right?
Speaker B:Unless you're lucky.
Speaker B:And even if you don't move, I bet you've had a friend who's moved away and you're like your little heart broken.
Speaker B:And I thought, this is deep.
Speaker B:Because I do think that that depth of beauty in friendships exists in us throughout our entire lives.
Speaker B:But it kind of wanes in middle age and when you have children because there's almost not enough space to feel that truly.
Speaker B:And you kind of need to ask yourself, can I maintain my old friendships?
Speaker B:And I think the ending of this book shows that you can.
Speaker B:And therefore it really ends on a high point emotionally.
Speaker B:Cause it's like, let's take that last ride on the skateboard that we.
Speaker B:That, you know, that we shared when I moved away from you.
Speaker B:So I realized that I'd achieved what I wanted to achieve as an individual, that I'd made a piece of art that was a story that represented historical past of my area of the Northeast.
Speaker B:But then also the era that I experienced it, the 70s, skateboarding, not having a skateboard, everyone being pretty poor.
Speaker B:The past being under our feet with dead bodies and skeletons.
Speaker B:And the experience I had with a gang who took me in a tent and told me terrible stories and then threatened me with a hammer.
Speaker B:I made that a part of the book.
Speaker B:And then it turns out that those people in the tent with the hammers, or Squeaky's brothers, right?
Speaker B:And she's been, you know, so all of these little tricks, right?
Speaker B:It takes ages to sit down and work out the tricks in a narrative arc because you've got to set people up by saying, don't get stuck there.
Speaker B:Remember, they're brave.
Speaker B:Every song has a reason.
Speaker B:All these little things.
Speaker B:The Ukraine Maidan happening as the child's been born, and in this case, the little tricks and the little bits you put in there to draw people's thoughts in a certain way, and then you can let it all unroll.
Speaker B:And you know what that's like?
Speaker B:That's like a DJ set, right?
Speaker B:Because basically I'm doing the same thing.
Speaker B:When I stepped into a room, whatever I was doing, if I was warming up, I'd be like, okay, I need to make people feel warm and let the rhythm just, like, get them into the night.
Speaker B:Maybe have a few sips, like a bit of alcohol kicking in, you know, like some stuff like that.
Speaker B:It needs to be cool.
Speaker B:It needs to be whatever.
Speaker B:And then now I'm going to take you, and now we're going to go.
Speaker B:And then what are those moments where it needs to change?
Speaker B:Did you just see three people cross the dance floor to their mates and then giggle and start laughing?
Speaker B:I'm going to take that moment and take it up to 102bpm and then start to make the party start to go, okay, no, I'm not.
Speaker B:Now I'm at 110.
Speaker B:I'm going to ride that.
Speaker B:Just like I'm going to ride four chapters that are about fishing and skateboards.
Speaker B:But it's not going to give much away because I'm just going to ride it.
Speaker B:I'm going to ride it.
Speaker B:Going to ride it.
Speaker B:You get to the end of those chapters, oh, my God, there's been an explosion.
Speaker B:Bang.
Speaker B:You're going to drop 115 with a scratch at the beginning and then suddenly you've got massive bass line.
Speaker B:The part is going.
Speaker B:The part is going up.
Speaker B:They're in the book.
Speaker B:They're reading.
Speaker B:They're reading.
Speaker B:Okay, what are you going to do in this chapter?
Speaker B:What are you going to do in this part of your set?
Speaker B:What are you going to do in this part of the song?
Speaker B:What are you going to do with your lyrics?
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:It's all the same thing.
Speaker B:It's all the same thing.
Speaker B:Acting in DJing is storytelling.
Speaker B:Songwriting is storytelling.
Speaker B:Writing a novel is the greatest form of that, the hardest form of that.
Speaker B:Can you make music to fit the novel?
Speaker B:I'm trying to push them all together still and make them cohesively adjoined to each other.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a really interesting concept that I want to come on to.
Speaker A:But just one thing that I wanted to ask you about whilst I made a couple of notes.
Speaker A:I think you've answered most of the things about the book.
Speaker A:Why was it that you chose to do it about?
Speaker A:So say if you were 10 in whatever year.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The characters in this book attend.
Speaker A:But it's like two years before I've worded that really weirdly.
Speaker A:You set it like two years earlier than you, didn't you?
Speaker A:Is that to have a bit of removal or like to avoid you just telling your story?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a very good question that gets onto the point of what do you include of your own experience?
Speaker B:Because then it just becomes an autobiography again.
Speaker B: ut that I was, I was eight in: Speaker B:However, what I want to put the kids through, I couldn't have the cerebral ability in an 8 year old that would be there in a 10 year old.
Speaker B:So I think that once you get to 10.
Speaker B:Look, part of this book is a little bit like, you know those times when you are 10, 12, when you're a kid and you hear your parents whispering or something happens, maybe someone in the family dies and then you notice there's a complete change about somebody or that you might overhear someone said E.
Speaker B:Well, you know, that's not what she said.
Speaker B:And I don't know if they're going to be able to survive.
Speaker B:Imagine when you're 10 and you hear an adult saying that in the kitchen when you're walking by with a toy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:See, all, all these little things are part of what that book was about.
Speaker B:So I had to, I had to shift things around so that I could make the story work, you know, because once the job you've got is, I think that most of us who are writers, it's semi autobiographical because how could you not experience the world to then put forward all the aspects of what you're describing?
Speaker B:Unless you're doing extreme science fiction.
Speaker B:But even then you've got to have characters that have love, hate, worry, jealousy, all those things.
Speaker B:It's all those sort of things.
Speaker B:So you have to shift things and you shift them to suit what you want to achieve.
Speaker B:And you have to think about that a lot while you're doing it.
Speaker B:Otherwise, can you imagine if you, if you start writing out and they were eight or seven, then you get like 30,000 words in and then you've got a scene that you know needs to happen and then you're like, hang On a minute, 8 year olds wouldn't be able to talk like that, would they?
Speaker B:Suddenly the people are reading like, oh, this is not true.
Speaker B:Sort of like when you watch a film and then suddenly the monster's really weak and you're like, oh, like the, the whole.
Speaker B:You hold people in the, the fiction, don't you?
Speaker B:You hold them in there and you've got to keep it alive.
Speaker B:And if you make a mistake, then suddenly people like, I don't know, it's like kids telling a lie while like.
Speaker B:And then we did this and we did that and then there was.
Speaker B:And you're like, okay, here come the lies.
Speaker B:And you can see through it.
Speaker B:You don't want that happening.
Speaker B:Whoops.
Speaker B:It's funny.
Speaker B:I'm not that.
Speaker B:That's a trophy.
Speaker B:Yes, the golf trophy.
Speaker B:So, yeah, you've got to work to hold people.
Speaker B:And you do that in the research.
Speaker B:And it's a little bit like, say you wanted to release a hip hop album and it's going to be all sample based.
Speaker B:If you start out with Funky Drummer, you know, and you want.
Speaker B:You're trying to make one for the heads, like a Nas Illmatic or something, and you start off with Funky Drummer and you know, all the classic breaks, people are going to be like, oh man, this, this is not, this is not hip hop.
Speaker B:He's using, he's biting, he's taking all the breaks that everyone's used.
Speaker B:So, you know, you've got to think like that.
Speaker B: ly so that when you step into: Speaker B:Like, it's like, no, you do so much work that people are like, okay, this is real.
Speaker B:Then you.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think like, some of the sort of references about the pop culture and stuff like that that use are quite powerful as well.
Speaker A:I always find there, like, there was someone else out on here who.
Speaker A:He talked about interviewing Lauryn Hill in one of his books.
Speaker A:And then he mentioned the smell of Vozine.
Speaker A:And it's like, I'm there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because, like, all these.
Speaker A:All these.
Speaker A:There was a couple in the book.
Speaker A:I didn't write them down, but I found them.
Speaker A:They really take you back there.
Speaker A:Because I'm a little bit younger than that, but, yeah, things didn't change that quickly back then, I don't think.
Speaker B:Oh, no, not at all.
Speaker B:You know, that's really nice that you say that, because, look, that's the game for people with Newtown Ghosts.
Speaker B:I want people who are my age to read it and go, oh, my God, this is there.
Speaker B:And then, you know, you mentioned Vozine there.
Speaker B:And like, I can now smell that now, because that was a really peculiarly strong smell, wasn't it?
Speaker B:And then, like, I can remember we used to always have, I think, quite cheap soap, but then there was 70s soap.
Speaker B:Was it by Pearl or something?
Speaker B:And then, you know, the Avon lady.
Speaker B:Avon.
Speaker B:So all.
Speaker B:And then suddenly you start mentioning all these things and it's in there, you know, but then you've got.
Speaker B:You can't just get by on your props.
Speaker B:But props are so important because if the props are wrong, like in the background of a movie, if I think in Ben Hur, there's a guy with a watch on, isn't there?
Speaker B:Like, you can freeze Ben Hur, which is supposed to be like, you know, 2,000 years ago.
Speaker B:And then there's a guy with a Rolex on.
Speaker B:It's like, hang on a minute, where did he get that from?
Speaker A:It's like even one of my mates reckons that there's only one accurate nightclub scene and it's chasers in the office.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Because generally you're like, this just isn't what clubs are like for most things, isn't it?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And it can really take you out of the experience if it's done wrong.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And you can.
Speaker B:You can lose interest so easily.
Speaker B:So you just got to get it right.
Speaker B:And it's just like getting hip hop right, you know, you don't do whack, you know, I remember Funky Fresh Food from Blackpool.
Speaker B:You know who.
Speaker B:I released that, the second record on Grand Central.
Speaker B:Was.
Speaker B:Was by them.
Speaker B:You know, their obsession with things having to be right by the rules of hip hop was quite incredible.
Speaker B:But that's because those rules, for a lot of hip hop DJs and those hip hop people, there were a lot of rules.
Speaker B:Don't bite.
Speaker B:Make it new.
Speaker B:It can't be like that.
Speaker B:Oh, that's whack.
Speaker B:That's cheesy.
Speaker B:This is that.
Speaker B:And, you know, you gotta be careful with the rules.
Speaker B:But they.
Speaker B:They're there in structure of writing, and they're there in songwriting structure, and they're there in doing sets for movies.
Speaker B:They're there in writing, in books.
Speaker B:You know, if you.
Speaker B:If you put something in there that's not right, immediately it's going to make.
Speaker B:Hang on, I'm coming.
Speaker B:I'm now moving out of the scene you've set.
Speaker B:Because it's not real.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And something else that's interesting with the book, for me, reading it, because I don't read an awful lot of novels.
Speaker A:I really struggle to find my kind of niche, I guess, with novels or genre, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker A:It's interesting because you're.
Speaker A:When you're reading it, you're kind of in it as a kid, experiencing it as a kid, but you're kind of in it as.
Speaker A:I mean, for me, I was kind of in it as a parent.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And it's interesting, like with Squeaky, because I.
Speaker A:I wasn't too sure whether it was.
Speaker A:He was being taken to care or whether it was his siblings.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But either way, like, his narrative in it is really kind of sad and it's.
Speaker A:It's kind of hard.
Speaker A:Hard to.
Speaker A:I found that harder than Simon's sort of story because it's just quite upsetting, this kind of home life that he's trying to escape from and stuff.
Speaker A:And you can only ever escape for a bit and then you're back there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But, yeah, you kind of consume it on two levels.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:And, you know, that's.
Speaker B:That's the best thing.
Speaker B:That's the best feedback I've had because it is multifaceted.
Speaker B:I knew that Simon was gonna have to do some stuff that I'd been through.
Speaker B:But, like, I've had a great childhood and a great life.
Speaker B:I've been supported incredibly strongly.
Speaker B:But I always remembered there'd be these wiry little kids at school and, you know, life was already stacked against them, you know, and that's who I chose to make it about.
Speaker B:And I manipulated lots of bits.
Speaker B:And then the key adjoining thing is that you know, Simon has to learn from what he doesn't do for his mother to help his friend Squeaky.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:There's a trick that I'm using there.
Speaker B:But thank you so much for your feedback because, yes, I kind of realized as it was going on that it was on two tiers.
Speaker B:And that's why I call it a children's book for adults and an adult book for children.
Speaker B:Because if a child reads that, they'll kind of get it and then they'll be like, oh.
Speaker B:And then likewise, you know, an adult reads it and they'll be like, I've been this.
Speaker B:But I also know what else is going on here because I didn't make it so that a child would read it and their parent would go, I don't want you reading that book.
Speaker B:The only thing that's near that is the smoking of the era.
Speaker B:Now, none of the characters in the book smoke.
Speaker B:However, there is presence of cigarettes because if you didn't have cigarettes on buses and, you know, teachers smoking and stuff, then it wouldn't be the 70s, because that's what it was like, you know.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, that links into what you were saying before about, you know, whether things are real or not.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And you draw parallels with your own life.
Speaker A:So we had our own sort of squeaky at our school.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And you know, kids would just be quite unpleasant.
Speaker A:And I remember this one day.
Speaker A:It's horrible.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:One of our teachers said he was off one day because he couldn't afford a belt.
Speaker A:His parents couldn't afford to get him a belt.
Speaker A:And that's the sort of thing sometimes that kids have to go through.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Horrible.
Speaker A:You know, and you just take it for granted.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I think I also realize that I'm kind of okay with making myself cry and also the crying that happens in the art because, you know, that's a release, isn't it?
Speaker B:You know, and I wanted to gather that experience that I'd seen.
Speaker B:And then also, you know, so it's got lots of reminiscing.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, people lost their lives in the mines, but then also the kids who were poor in my school, they were linked to the mining community.
Speaker B:And I mean, actually, you know, my.
Speaker B:My family has got mining heritage as well.
Speaker B:And it's just to like get in that world and give it its due.
Speaker B:And then also for everyone, the moving away is tear jerking.
Speaker B:But then also like, you know, kids who haven't got a chance, kids who haven't got dads who love them, who, you know, dads who don't care about what they're doing at the weekend or spend the time to go, come on, we'll do this.
Speaker B:And to show them love.
Speaker B:And I think I always remember in my life, I was so, so lucky because other people's kids were attracted to my dad because he was always doing things with me, like, let's build a bogey.
Speaker B:Okay, let's do this.
Speaker B:And the other kids would swarm around going, what's going on?
Speaker B:And it'd be like, let's be part of that.
Speaker B:And then you just see other kids, dads, and they would like, like, you know, back then, they'd sort of like, be really, you know, just.
Speaker B:I don't play with children or children should be seen and not heard, you know, and just to see that.
Speaker B:So a lot of the book as well is.
Speaker B:Is me toying with the idea of why these kids were so.
Speaker B:Loved my dad so much, is because he loved them.
Speaker B:He wanted to show them science and engineering and go, okay, kids, do you know what this does?
Speaker B:And that doesn't they just like.
Speaker B:And I just thought, this is quite special.
Speaker B:And it was a celebration of my dad in that way, but not in a kind of autobiographical, cloying way.
Speaker B:It was like, no, it's a lesson in there.
Speaker B:If you're a dad reading this or you're a child reading this, this is how dad should be, right?
Speaker B:Full of love, full of explaining, full of support.
Speaker B:And then, you know, obviously in the end, at the very end, you know, he says, so what's happened to your dad?
Speaker B:Oh, I still got my dad.
Speaker B:And, you know, what do you do, Squeaky?
Speaker B:I became an engineer because your dad.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you see, when you're writing and you're an author and you get to that point, you're like, oh, my God, I can use.
Speaker B:I can tie this up now because it's going to show that all those little bits in the book where he was like, what does that do?
Speaker B:Simon's dad, what does this do?
Speaker B:And Simon's not interested because it's his dad telling someone else.
Speaker B:But the little kids, like, I haven't got a dad who tells me anything.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:You tell me stuff.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:And then at the end, for him to say, I became something because of that input, that's, you know, a beautiful arc.
Speaker B:And just, you know, in the end, I suppose, when they get the skateboard and they say, come on, let's have that one last ride, the wording Is there.
Speaker B:You can still be a child and you're late.
Speaker B:You know, as an older person, you should still keep the child alive inside you.
Speaker B:So there's that message.
Speaker B:Don't let that die.
Speaker B:You can restore old friendships.
Speaker B:You can still have a dream to be young at heart.
Speaker B:And, you know, there's so much else going on, the environment.
Speaker B:So, like, I'm really proud of it because it did what I wanted.
Speaker B:And I did cry a few times when I was writing it.
Speaker B:I was like, yeah, because you let it out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, reflection can be tough, but it can be a beautiful thing.
Speaker A:So just on the album, then when you decided to do that, because you've not half asked it, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It's really well done.
Speaker A:Did you create that from a point of view of.
Speaker A:Of it being part of the consumption ecosystem with the Book for People, or was it just, I want to create this as well?
Speaker B:I've tried to make them.
Speaker B:I've tried to make all of the.
Speaker B:Particularly from the Caterpillar Pillar Club.
Speaker B:Whereas if you listen to the soundtrack of that, you know, which is available online, if you don't want to, you know, buy on Spotify and stuff, and you.
Speaker B:You remember that from this point, this is the sound of a guy who's DJing in Electric Soho House in London.
Speaker B:And DJing is valueless.
Speaker B:If you listen to that music, you'll hear that there's like a melancholic echo of house, garage, hip hop, soul.
Speaker B:But it's like, it's not doing the work of a song that you would play on the dance floor.
Speaker B:It's doing the work of how all that feels inside your brain being disregarded and dying away.
Speaker B:So there's a melancholy there with this one.
Speaker B:I started off with the same.
Speaker B:So for Newtown Ghost, I was like, I'm gonna make a jazz record.
Speaker B:A bit like CTI Records or Bob James or, you know, it's gonna be like that.
Speaker B:Because you know what?
Speaker B:That was the seventies.
Speaker B:And let's just.
Speaker B:That'll be easy Mark.
Speaker B:Writing a novel so hard.
Speaker B:Let's just do a jazzy kind of nice vibes that sound very 70s.
Speaker B:And then suddenly, like, as I was doing them, I was like, oh, no.
Speaker B:Squeaky wants to speak in song today and Simon's got to talk about this.
Speaker B:And then there's the.
Speaker B:Then there's the gang and they've got a hammer and there's gonna be a rap in Geordie.
Speaker B:And it's like, oh, my God.
Speaker B:I didn't choose mentally to go this is what I'm gonna do.
Speaker B:It literally, it came out because behind me there's a.
Speaker B:There's a bed that's fold out and it's like a studio seat so people I'm working with can sit on there.
Speaker B:So I lie back on that when I'm writing on my computer, on my laptop.
Speaker B:So I'm.
Speaker B:I'm typing and I'll go to a point.
Speaker B:So basically those words are there and I'll be like, okay, I'm done with that.
Speaker B:And I'll switch my studio on, put a beat on.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you know, we climb the trees, we live and we grow.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, I've got it.
Speaker B:The words are going to come from the eyes of the children.
Speaker B:We scratch our knees in the tunnel we must go.
Speaker B:So that song, the Conquer Boys, which was the last single.
Speaker B:We climb the trees, we live and regrow we scratch our knees in the tunnel we must go.
Speaker B:So basically, those words from a childhood point of view, I did go in tunnels and we did end up in coal mines.
Speaker B:But that tunnel, from an adult point of view is mental health.
Speaker B:And it's basically saying that in life you're gonna scratch your knees and also you're gonna go into tunnels.
Speaker B:And then there's a song called Rubber Inner Tube, which is my favorite on there.
Speaker B:And basically it's got the voice of the mother saying, no matter what you go through, life is a river and you will go down the river.
Speaker B:And you've just got to learn to float on a rubber inner tube till our time is done.
Speaker B:So the last words is basically, till our time is done.
Speaker B:And that does mean death.
Speaker B:And it's basically like you're on a river and you'll eventually get to the sea, and the sea is your death.
Speaker B:And on that journey you basically have got to learn to stay on the rubber inner tube.
Speaker B:And sometimes you might not achieve it and you might fall off and your legs will drag along and you'll get cold and it'll be dark.
Speaker B:But you've got to remember that it's just all a dream, really.
Speaker B:And you've got to look after your brain.
Speaker B:And, and.
Speaker B:And that was a message to myself through my dead mother.
Speaker B:Rubbery in a tube.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And what I found interesting with it because.
Speaker A:So I started listening to the CD in the car whilst I was reading the book.
Speaker A:But after, like halfway through the first time, I was like, right, stop.
Speaker A:Because I didn't want to be listening to it, trying to work out the story of The.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's a detachment.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I think, for me, it's nice to consume it afterwards, but it's got a really, like.
Speaker A:Like, I used to do stuff with a folk band that used to do some of the sort of, I guess, like, Northumberland mining sort of stuff, and it's got a lot of that style with some of the songs in there as well.
Speaker A:Like some of the singing.
Speaker B:The key takes you there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, like, that's what I wanted to do, you know, there's no commercial consideration behind this.
Speaker B:I'm thinking of the dead miners, my dead mum and all the people who don't get enough money to eat, all the people who don't have a dad who looks after them, all the people who've got mums who drink, all the people who live and feel life, all of the communities that we used to have in the past that would more closely knit all of those different things.
Speaker B:It's a love letter to my past, my childhood, a love letter to the environment, nature.
Speaker B:There's creatures in there, you know, there's animals throughout it.
Speaker B:There's fish, there's sticklebacks, there's cod, there's badgers, there's foxes.
Speaker B:All these things that I grew up with, and they're very much part of this country and if you live in a city, you can forget that.
Speaker B:But, you know, I had a childhood like that and I just wanted to just put it all together and try and make some sense of life myself.
Speaker B:We live through nature and the closer you are to nature, the cleaner you'll keep your brain, I think.
Speaker B:Remember that.
Speaker B:Get out.
Speaker A:I think the.
Speaker A:The sort of last point I'd make as well, around.
Speaker A:Around the book and the album is the.
Speaker A:Is the lack of skimping in terms of, like, the quality of everything in terms of, like, the record, like your price point, the book.
Speaker A:Because even, you know, there's plenty of books where you read them and you find sort of little, like, editing errors and stuff like that.
Speaker A:There's nothing like that in it.
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:It's all been very meticulously done.
Speaker A:The music's really well recorded and mixed and I think as a package as well, for what you're selling it for, it's a really good price point.
Speaker A:So you can sell.
Speaker A:You're not.
Speaker A:Because, you know, people sell something, it's limited edition, it's 50 quid or whatever, but you're doing.
Speaker A:It's like, what, 20 quid for the record and the book?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You get, you buy the vinyl, you get a free book.
Speaker B:You buy the book, you get a free CD.
Speaker B:And that's 10 quid for a book and a free CD.
Speaker B:Do you know what?
Speaker B:I'm not, I'm not, I'm not after making money.
Speaker B:I, I'm not, I'm after telling stories and I want my story of everyone in that book.
Speaker B:The people who could read it anywhere in the world and go, I know these people because there's people like that in Peru who have got no money and their dad doesn't laugh them.
Speaker B:There's people who've been in mines here or there's people who, you know, and it's all about mental health as well, and it's about seeing that.
Speaker B:So for me, my job is to share this stuff, to help people.
Speaker B:But you know, there is a selfish.
Speaker B:I'm helping myself.
Speaker B:Being able to sit and write and do this music makes me feel better.
Speaker B:It makes me feel self actualized.
Speaker B:It makes me feel like it wasn't all worth nothing.
Speaker B:It makes me feel like I'd been through all the Grand Central stuff that I'd been through, all the things we all go through with parental loss and having babies and then watching them grow, all these things that it does have a reason.
Speaker B:And the reason of course, is our connection to each other and the love that we share.
Speaker B:And it's so easy to be, to be bent the other way by the Internet and to be feel fractured because there's lots of big forces with money behind them making us fractured so that there's like, there's an essence little bit in there to say, hey, look, you know, we are still like this inside.
Speaker B:You know, believe in community, look after each other and you can still keep your friends till you die.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:Right, so the last thing then.
Speaker A:Mark, thanks very much for your time today.
Speaker A:It's been lovely to sort of get into all the areas we've got into today and it's been very different to what we did in our last session.
Speaker A:So really enjoyed it.
Speaker A:Where can people find the book?
Speaker A:The band camp, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So I have a Shopify account called mark.com and you can buy the book and CD and vinyl from there and also band camp.
Speaker B:So that's two places.
Speaker B:I'm also distributed by Kudos Distribution, who will be putting it out on April 11 into the shops that want it.
Speaker B:If you buy the vinyl in any shop, you should get a free book if you don't contact me directly.
Speaker B:And I'll send you one just in case.
Speaker B:They get lost.
Speaker B:Or people just don't read what it's supposed to be doing.
Speaker B:A lot of people don't understand what I'm trying to do.
Speaker B:They're like, what, you want to give away a book for free?
Speaker B:Why would you want to do that?
Speaker B:Well, because I do.
Speaker B:Let me do it, you know.
Speaker B:So basically that's available in shops from April 11 and then also, basically it's available online from Bandcamp, Mark Ray bandcamp and then mark-ray.com and also you can buy it on Apple Books and then Amazon Books and then.
Speaker B:And I'm working on this and I hope that you can have a help.
Speaker B:Help me with this, Adam, by.
Speaker B:Even if it's just running your ears over it and giving me some advice.
Speaker B:But basically, the audiobook, I am honestly gonna.
Speaker B:It's going to take me more.
Speaker B:I've been at it for about six weeks now, but I'm going to have the sounds of birds, the sounds of water, the sounds of sticklebacks, the sounds of everything in there, as well as the music we've discussed.
Speaker B:So it's going to take me a lot longer to get there because I'm doing all the voices of the characters and everything.
Speaker B:But I think that might be where the real magic's going to lie.
Speaker B:So maybe we can work on that one together.
Speaker A:Yeah, Amazing.
Speaker A:Brilliant stuff.
Speaker A:Right, mate, well, I'll get back.
Speaker A:Let you get back to that.
Speaker A:It sounds like you got a lot on your plate.
Speaker B:Indeed.
Speaker B:No rest for the wicked.
Speaker A:Thanks very much for your time, mate.
Speaker B:It's a pleasure, Adam.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me on.
Speaker B:Once a dj.
Speaker A:All the best.
