Martin 2 Smoove - The 20 year residency, and the secrets to a long and prosperous DJ career

Speaker A: 00:00:23

Welcome back to Paths Of Rhythm, everyone.

This week we've got with us Ministry of Sound, Milkshake resident tour DJ for Philly rapper Eve and also for comedian Ramesh Ranganathan, a man who held down a Pasha residency alongside Trevor Nelson in Ibiza and has done a lot with Trevor and even played the mayor's fireworks in London.

I don't think there's much he's not done.

Please welcome the legend that is Martin.

Too smooth.

Speaker B: 00:00:46

Yeah.

What an intro.

Thank you, Adam.

Speaker A: 00:00:48

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm getting better at them slowly.

Speaker B: 00:00:51

That was epic.

Thank you.

Made me feel good out here.

Speaker A: 00:00:53

Oh, nice.

How are you doing?

Speaker B: 00:00:55

Great.

The sun is shining.

We're in London.

There's no better city in the world when it's sunny.

Speaker A: 00:01:00

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, Derby's not that good, I'll be honest.

Right.

So, yeah, today we'll just have a bit of a chat about your life, your career and all that sort of stuff.

What's worked, I guess.

So just going back to the start of things.

You were born in Kerala, right?

Speaker B: 00:01:16

Yeah.

My parents are Maliali, which is from a state called Kerala.

My older brothers were born here in the uk, but my mum decided to have me out there because it's easier, you have family.

And my dad was working a lot, so she had support system out there.

Speaker A: 00:01:32

I had a similar thing.

My dad was working in Korea.

Speaker B: 00:01:34

Oh, really?

Speaker A: 00:01:34

Yeah.

So my mum came back to Wakefield to have me.

Speaker B: 00:01:37

You could have been Korean.

But you said you were from Yorkshire.

Speaker A: 00:01:40

From Wakefield, yeah.

So did you actually live.

Did you live there for a time or.

Speaker B: 00:01:46

Probably, like the first six months of my life, I don't really remember it.

And I feel British.

If England were to play India and cricket.

I support England.

Yeah, yeah, that sort of thing.

Speaker A: 00:01:57

So whereabouts did you grow up, then?

Speaker B: 00:01:58

Basildon in Essex.

Speaker A: 00:02:00

Oh, okay.

Speaker B: 00:02:02

So I had a really normal upbringing.

Very middle class.

Went to a local.

Well, it's a grammar school, A Catholic grammar school.

My school seemed like it was, you see, in the In Betweeners, I felt like my friends were the in betweeners.

That sort of vibe.

Just a normal British upbringing.

Speaker A: 00:02:20

Yeah, yeah.

So what was the first sort of musical inspirations, then?

Speaker B: 00:02:25

I loved Michael Jackson.

My family never had any musical inclinations at all because they're just immigrant parents from India.

They don't really know about music.

Their only real thing is to survive here and just make sure that we prosper.

So music was never a thing in our house.

You never have any music playing in the background, which is sad because that'll Be the opposite.

When I have children, I think there's always music on.

But.

So I loved Michael Jackson.

I must have heard that.

Used to love his stuff.

And then when we got sky tv, remember watching mtv, Bass a lot and mtv and seeing Trevor Nelson was a big inspiration.

Watching him on tv, I thought, I really like the music he's playing.

I love R B, I love up.

And.

Yeah, that was probably the first few things.

Speaker A: 00:03:15

Yeah.

Because even that MTV2 at that point was playing some of the more sort of indie rap as well, wasn't it?

Speaker B: 00:03:21

Yeah.

Like, you'd see Roots, you'd see the.

The Wu Tang.

And Zane Low, I think, was the guy that was championing that.

Speaker A: 00:03:28

Yeah.

So were you kind of.

What age would you have been then?

Sort of teens?

Speaker B: 00:03:33

Yeah, I would say between the ages of like 13 and 16.

And then it was from 16 and 17 is when I thought, I'm going to become a DJ.

I wanna.

I wanna do it.

Speaker A: 00:03:42

So what.

What put that spark in you, the DJing?

Speaker B: 00:03:46

I loved what Trevor did.

I love what he represented.

I love the music.

I love the way he carried himself.

And I went to a nightclub once when I was like 17 with a friend.

I remember seeing the Dream Team, which Spoonie was part of, which is a garage collector, three of them.

And I just saw how they just made everyone happy in that room.

They just.

Whatever you're going through, if you're working a hard week, if you just about to meet a girl on the dance floor or whatever you going through, you forget that moment and you're having the time of your life on that dance floor.

And they did that.

And I just thought that's what I want to do.

Speaker A: 00:04:27

So you want it to be that kind of emotional?

Speaker B: 00:04:31

Yeah, I just want to make people feel good.

Speaker A: 00:04:33

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, nice.

So what records were you buying them when you were buying?

We got in more garage or more hip hop?

Speaker B: 00:04:41

No, I never garage.

It was always R and B and hip hop.

I. I loved the era before my time.

I love stuff like Tribe Called Quest.

I loved De La Soul, I loved Wu Tang, I loved Biggie, Tupac.

I loved all of that stuff.

Era that was just before mine.

My era.

Our era is probably more the.

The jar rules.

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:05:10

So, like, I guess with the era before there was such a crossover of.

I suppose, and I might be wrong on this, like, what would be in the streets would also work in a club.

And then because, like, as we've discussed, you know, are.

We're the same age and we've kind of started at the same times, DJing and stuff.

And I think in our era, it.

It was kind of a strange one because you had the shiny suit stuff and then you had the backpack stuff.

Speaker B: 00:05:37

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: 00:05:37

And they kind of pulled so far apart.

Like, how was that?

Speaker B: 00:05:42

They hated each other, didn't they?

Speaker A: 00:05:44

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 00:05:45

Have you read Mark Ronson's book?

Speaker A: 00:05:47

Yes.

Speaker B: 00:05:47

And where he was DJing with q tip in a club and one of Diddy's men came in, or security came into DJ booth and while Q Tip was playing and was like, diddy wants to know the name of this track.

And Q Tip was like, I don't know, I'm not telling you.

Literally him saying, I don't know, I'm not going to tell you.

Pretty much they hated each other, those side.

But I think, like, you look at someone like Rob Percy, our mutual friend, you can perfectly like both things.

They can perfectly coexist at different times.

Like, I'm not going to listen to some of the Diddy stuff at home, but I will listen to the roots at home.

Speaker A: 00:06:26

Yeah.

So.

So when did DJing take off for you?

When did you have anyone around that you were like, learning with?

Speaker B: 00:06:35

At uni, it kind of took off.

Like, I had to kind of get my A levels done.

My parents are so on education, like Indian parents.

They just wanted.

I was going to say, yeah, your education done.

My dad's a doctor, so he wanted us to kind of fall in line in a similar sort of profession or at least be a professional.

If it's an accountant, if it's a dentist, if it's a lawyer, just be.

Have a profession.

So I went to uni and then, because I lived away from uni, from home, kind of got my own independence, started throwing parties.

And then there's someone at my uni liked the music that I liked, and we DJ together for a bit, and so we learned for a little bit and then just.

Just, you know, little bits at a time.

We threw parties.

This union asked us to throw parties.

Then I warmed up for Trevor, did university radio.

Then after uni, the guy that worked with Trevor asked me if I wanted to work at work with him.

So just kind of little steps.

Speaker A: 00:07:33

Yeah.

So when you were at uni, you studied economics, right?

Speaker B: 00:07:37

Yeah.

Horrible time.

Speaker A: 00:07:38

Why did you study economics?

Speaker B: 00:07:39

To shut my parents up.

And I just thought my brother did it and he was kind of like a role model in that sense.

Like, I support the same football team as him and he did economics.

I thought I should do it and I hated it.

I really Hated it.

But I loved university, but I just hated the echo academic side of it.

But luckily I managed to get through God knows how.

Speaker A: 00:08:02

Was it useful though, in kind of things around, like.

Because, I mean, I don't know much about economics but I'm guessing there's a lot about understanding what value is in different situations and stuff like that.

Speaker B: 00:08:13

I mean it is useful.

Would I say I've used a lot of the theory in my life?

Probably not, but it is useful and I think just university in the whole is so useful.

It's such an informative way of like getting raised because you have to deal with deadlines, you have to deal with, if I'm going to party all night, I'm not going to make that 9:00 o' clock lecture and if I don't make that 9:00 clock lecture, I might not know that part of the course that might be on the exam.

So you kind of.

And relationships like if I hang out with those guys, I'm not going to pass this module sort of thing.

So university does teach you more about life than actual academia?

Speaker A: 00:08:58

Yeah.

I had the people that you'd go out party with, partying with and one of them, like you'd be in lectures the next day and he'd just be like asleep on the lecture seat and he still came away with the first.

Speaker B: 00:09:09

Did he?

Speaker A: 00:09:10

And I'm like, how?

I mean, I think part of it he was really clever, which obviously helps and I think he just knew just when to pull the trigger up.

When it was like, right, I need to work hard now it's knowing that timing is really good.

Speaker B: 00:09:23

Do you think that's it?

Speaker A: 00:09:24

I think it's probably like a self awareness thing, isn't it?

Of like, you know how much you need to do like.

I didn't.

I did music tech at uni but it wasn't very music.

It was a lot more sound tech, acoustics, electronics, stuff like that.

And I just didn't really care much.

Like I scraped through but what did.

Speaker B: 00:09:45

You get in the end?

Speaker A: 00:09:46

I got two.

Two?

Speaker B: 00:09:47

Yeah, that's a gentleman's degree, that's what I got.

Speaker A: 00:09:49

But like I tried to get on a masters doing like digital signal processing.

I don't know why I didn't really care about it, but I just thought, oh, this is something you can earn some money out of because I mean to your point about your parents and your pressure and stuff, my mum was very much bothered about me getting something where I would earn money and stuff because yeah, she's got this weird thing about just worrying that she's going to be homeless.

Yeah.

Like the more it all comes from somewhere.

Speaker B: 00:10:14

Maybe she's been for a situation where.

Speaker A: 00:10:16

Yeah, I think, I think it was how my dad handled things when he left and it was quite a traumatic time for us, you know, I'm sure would be.

But yeah, so it was always like with DJing, it was always like, are you getting paid for this?

You're getting paid for this.

Speaker B: 00:10:31

Oh, she's saying that.

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:10:32

And not seeing the value in.

Sometimes you do stuff for free and it opens doors 100%.

Speaker B: 00:10:37

That's such an important point.

I think in a day now where everything is about showing off or showing what you got or showing how much you've earned or whatever.

There's so much value in taking the long term approach of things.

If I do a gig for free for this thing, maybe it could lead to something else.

I think so many DJs, oh, I'm not doing it for free.

I mean, I'm not saying you should work for free continuously, but there must be opportunity.

If there's an opportunity where you can develop something from it that you love, definitely take the gig for free.

Speaker A: 00:11:09

Yeah.

Like, I was chatting to someone who runs a listening bar the other day and they was, they were talking about how hard it is at the moment to keep going and they want to open more.

And so I was talking to them about potentially DJ and I was like, you know, whatever the money, there's definitely things before where I thought, well, I need to be getting at least this on principle.

Speaker B: 00:11:25

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:11:25

With this I was like, I'd just rather be part of something because I'm not playing as much as I'd like.

I want to be part of something and, you know, I don't want to be part of something in a way that I'm like, well, I want this much money, which means they just can't afford to do it, you know.

Speaker B: 00:11:38

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: 00:11:39

No one benefits from that.

Speaker B: 00:11:40

No.

Speaker A: 00:11:41

But yeah, so, yeah, with the, with the uni thing.

Yeah.

I think there's just, just knowing what you need to do to get by.

Speaker B: 00:11:48

I definitely didn't do that.

Speaker A: 00:11:49

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:11:50

There's terms.

I turned up to exams and I genuinely thought I was in a different exam to what I was supposed to be like.

It looked like a foreign language.

Speaker A: 00:11:57

I mean, you did pick a pretty difficult subject.

Speaker B: 00:12:00

Oh, yes.

It's horrific.

Speaker A: 00:12:01

I've talked.

My nephew's doing economics.

I've talked to him about it a couple of times.

Speaker B: 00:12:04

I'm sorry, I can't remember Anything from it now?

Speaker A: 00:12:08

Yeah.

And you went to Keel.

Speaker B: 00:12:09

Keel, yeah.

Good.

This guy's done his research.

Speaker A: 00:12:13

Yeah, I do try, yeah.

So what was Kiel like for music?

Because, I mean, that's basically Stoke, isn't it?

Speaker B: 00:12:18

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:12:18

And like Stoke in music history, in terms of like the Northern Soul and I think even in the sort of early rave scene, like, it's quite a significant place.

Speaker B: 00:12:27

They had some major clubs there.

But the main thing for us was as students, Kiel had the biggest campus in Europe.

So the.

Despite it being quite a small union, not many people know it, it's quite academic.

But the camp every.

Everyone lived on campus.

If you're first, second or third year, you lived on campus.

So that means you can develop a following.

Or if you throw parties, people hear about it.

Oh, that's the guy that threw.

So that was really beneficial for us.

But in terms of Stoke, there was a big R and B hip hop scene as well.

I think there was a large like black and Asian population there that kind of helped develop that scene and it was wicked.

My time at uni was amazing.

I had so much fun there, made so many friends there and looked back with fondness.

Speaker A: 00:13:12

So musically, what sort of parties were you doing?

Was it all hip hop and R and B?

Speaker B: 00:13:16

All hip hop.

And I was very strict about that.

Nowadays I'm a lot more chill.

But back then it was.

We were on vinyl.

Speaker A: 00:13:24

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:13:25

So I couldn't really be too flexible and it would be literally R B and hip hop.

I remember I wouldn't even play garage, but if someone wanted to hear garage, we'd get a garage DJ in to do it.

But yeah, and we'd always try and if we threw parties, would try and get DJs that were popping in London to headline.

So I remember we had Swing Rest in Peace, Steve Sutherland, Rest in Peace, Hanif Dodge.

People that were in that R B hip hop circle, we'd always try and book them.

And I remember there's also seen for like the Scratch perverts.

So the people that were slightly.

I think you would have probably gone to those parties.

They were sick.

But I like both of them.

So yeah, it was a good scene.

Speaker A: 00:14:09

Yeah.

I remember like James Hamlin used to do that off the hook in Derby and they got plus one down there and Prime Cuts.

Beg your pardon.

And that was one of the best gigs I went to for a long time.

It's insanely good.

Speaker B: 00:14:21

I know.

And everyone dances in those gigs.

Whereas RB gigs are a bit more stush.

But those ones you can get sweaty at dance, wear whatever trainers you want.

People stay, you know what I mean?

Speaker A: 00:14:34

Do you mean as in, like, people are quite conscious of, like, how they're looking and.

Speaker B: 00:14:37

Yeah, yeah, it was.

People want to look cool, impress girls, girls want to impress guys, that sort of thing.

But it wasn't that bad.

People still had fun.

Speaker A: 00:14:46

Yeah.

So at what point did you have the conversation with your parents of, yeah, I want to be a dj.

Speaker B: 00:14:52

I said it.

I think after my first year uni, I think they thought it was a fad.

Basically, up until that point, in my summer holidays, I'd just do jobs in retail or working in a phone shop or working for, like, a clothes shop.

And then after my first year at uni, I thought, I'm not going to waste my summer.

I'm going to try and get a job at a record studio or at record label.

Pardon me, or anything that will get me immersed in the music scene.

So when I'd come back home to Essex in the summer, I'd work for a studio called Wise Buddha, which was at the time as a studio similar to this.

Speaker A: 00:15:33

They do a lot of voiceovers and stuff.

Speaker B: 00:15:34

Yeah, they did radio stuff.

It was set up by Mark Goodyear.

Who was the guy?

Yeah, he was a DJ.

He did the top 40 a long time ago and he set up a company called Wisebudd and he had about six studios.

I was a runner, but.

So if, say, 50 Cent came to the country, they'd do interviews with pirate radio DJs, but rather than get 50 Cent to go on top of a flat block in Hackney, they'd get all the DJs to just have 15 minutes in these studios and interview 50 Cent.

And I'd be the runner.

So whenever 50 Cent wants a drink or want food, I'd go out and get orders.

And it was quite good because I'd always get drops from them.

So I'd be at uni in my second year and I'd get a drop from Mariah Carey or Ice Cube or Exhibit.

And, yeah, I loved it.

Just loved being around the scene and seeing how those DJs conducted themselves.

Speaker A: 00:16:29

And so were you getting the drops recorded through the studio?

Speaker B: 00:16:32

Yeah, I had this guy shout out to this guy, my man, Mark Duckett.

He.

He was.

He was a friend and he did.

He.

He was the audio engineer for those sessions.

So at the end when they did a list of drops, he said, oh, can you do a drop for this guy?

And no, I was going to say no for one drop.

Speaker A: 00:16:50

Yeah.

Because a lot of people would just Be it be like in some sweaty club toilet with a dictaphone, wouldn't it?

Speaker B: 00:16:56

You know, I had studio drops and it was so cool when I was going back to uni and I'd have all these shout outs from these artists which was cool, bit of a flex.

Speaker A: 00:17:05

How was it being around those people?

Even as a runner, was it like hard not to like fanboy?

Speaker B: 00:17:11

Yeah, it was.

But I always do.

You know what, just being a fanboy, I think I got, I got it wiped out of me early on in my life because I think I work with a guy called Hanif who is like Trevor's right hand man and just, I think any DJ that wants to learn etiquette should work for him because there's certain things that I will never, you'll never see me take my phone out and ask for a selfie or if I'm DJing and as an artist on stage I will never take my phone out and record it.

Just like if something goes wrong and you're out there with your phone out, you're just going to look like you're slacking or you've made a mistake.

And I think working with Trevor and him I just learned how to behave and like just, you know what, even though you're a huge fan, just treat them like professionally.

Speaker A: 00:18:03

Yeah.

So it sounds like Trevor was a big catalyst in your career.

Speaker B: 00:18:07

Yeah, 100%.

And him and Hanif.

Speaker A: 00:18:09

Yeah.

So how did these relationships start then?

Speaker B: 00:18:12

So Trevor came up to my uni to DJ and I really wanted to warm up and because he's the reason I started DJing.

Yeah, I really wanted to warm up for him and I told the SU guys and let me warm up and he bought his warm up as well.

So I was the warm up to the warm up and that's how I got to meet Hanif and Trevor.

Then I did loads of other gigs.

He asked me to do loads of other gigs in student land like I did.

I think we did Derby, I think we did Leeds, Lancaster.

I did loads of.

I started warming up for him for a lot of unis and just got to know him from that.

Speaker A: 00:18:46

The first time you warmed up for him, were you doing anything to like try and impress him or were you just staying fully like I know I'm warming up at this, at this time so I'm playing totally appropriate for this.

Speaker B: 00:19:00

I would definitely try and dig deeper in my selection to see oh if he's impressed but literally he'd be there 10 minutes before.

And back in the day when we had Vinyls to make sure he knows, like nowadays if you're warming up with someone, they can just check your history on your serato.

Whereas we would leave our records that we played up on our record box and they'd.

You played that, you played that, you played that, you played that.

And he'd look through that and then they carry on play.

Speaker A: 00:19:27

Oh, so that you wouldn't play the same things.

Yeah, yeah.

Did he have like do not playlists or anything?

Speaker B: 00:19:32

Nah.

Trevor is a classy guy, man, but he's also someone that keeps good people around him.

So he knows that I'm not going to burn his set and I'm not going to play the stuff that he wants to play.

So he knows the situation.

Speaker A: 00:19:47

Yeah.

So what was next then?

How did that.

Because were you like flyering for Trevor and stuff as well?

Speaker B: 00:19:52

Yeah, him and Hanif.

So Hanif is Trevor's right hand man.

And when I came out of uni, he goes, he ran a night called Milkshake at Ministry of Sound.

He goes, why don't you come and work with me for a bit?

And 20 years later I'm still there.

But I came out of uni and I started working on his Freshers events.

And being fresh out of uni, talking to students was just easy, promoting an event was easy.

And having that extra incentive that I'm DJing at the event as well makes it cooler and gives you more motivation.

So I did that for a long time.

It got frustrating at the end, like maybe five, six years because I'd be having to break into halls and.

And when you're like in your mid-20s, you're just fed up of it.

You just don't want to go into, carry around loads of boxes of flyers.

But then we found someone else that was really good, a guy called Louis and he elevated the business, took it all online and took over my job, which meant I could focus on DJing.

Speaker A: 00:20:56

Nice.

I was never any good at like flyering, just going up to random people.

Speaker B: 00:21:01

Really.

Why is that?

Speaker A: 00:21:02

Confidence.

Speaker B: 00:21:03

Really?

Speaker A: 00:21:03

Yeah, yeah, I tried.

I put a gig on in Derby last year and I went, I went to.

Because it was like, like 60s garage rock and stuff and that's apparently quite popular with like a younger crowd.

So I went to the bottom of where the uni is.

I went up to this, these two girls were walking past and went up and tried to give them a flyer and they went, no.

I just walked off.

I was like, this ain't working.

Speaker B: 00:21:26

And you know what?

It's the.

If you did a Group of people.

If the first person says yes, they'll all take a flyer behind.

Speaker A: 00:21:32

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:21:33

But if the first person says no, then it's really hard to come back from that.

But I think there's so many tricks.

Like, even to get into halls, we would press buzzers, and we'd be like, hey, it's Patrick from the Students Union.

You can buzz us in.

Because we got to drop a few flyers.

They'd never say no to an Irish accent.

And we'd get in and fly her and.

Yeah, there's so many tricks.

So many tricks.

We'd be like, two for one offer, and people would take it, and then they'd look at a flyer and they'd be like, oh, it's a club night.

But at least they got the flyer and they're reading it.

Speaker A: 00:22:06

Yeah.

Yeah.

So how did DJing go on?

Were you quite quickly taken on as a resident then at Milkshake?

Speaker B: 00:23:28

Yeah, I had to work for it, but I did it.

And then the person that was DJing before me kind of stopped DJing as much, so I started doing it then.

It was a lot, though, because I was promoting, selling tickets, and DJing all night.

So, like, when you sell tickets, you're gonna have to cash in people, and doing that during the night is hard.

And then, luckily, I don't know if, you know, heard of DJ Andy Pannell.

Yeah.

So I met him in my third or fourth year working at Milkshake.

He was a student, and he handed me a cd, and his CD was amazing.

But I put it in my back pocket, and I sat on it, and it snapped.

And then for some reason, I left it in my car or left it in someone's car, and they threw it away.

So I lost contact with him.

But then I met him again, and he was just an epic dj.

We hired him one night.

He was late, and then when he was late, he said, I'm so sorry.

And then I go, just start now, quickly.

And he started, and he was.

So as I was walking out of the booth to start the till, he was just juggling.

And I thought, this guy.

This kid's really good.

And.

And then ever since then, he's always been there to kind of halve the load for me.

Like, while I was doing the till stuff or cashing people up or getting people into the club, he'd be DJing and vice versa.

It's.

It's so important to have a team around you.

I think of good people even now, for example, if I'm busy, if I've got a Romesh gig or if I'm doing another gig or wedding or I've got to go to a family function and Eve's got a gig.

I'll ask Andy to do it because he's got experience with centricy and Eve knows him.

And it's just so important to have a team of like minded people.

Speaker A: 00:25:15

Yeah.

It's like I run my own business and like it's pretty like for the things that I can't do.

There's people that do them.

No question.

In your team is the people.

Yeah, yeah.

But then I struggle with giving up what I do to other people.

I find that really hard because I'm just like, are they gonna do it exactly how I do it and exactly how I want it doing?

It's really hard, isn't it?

Like sometimes to find those people.

Like it sounds like you kind of fell lucky a bit with Andy.

100%.

Speaker B: 00:25:43

But you can also train people up.

But part of the joy is they're gonna bring their element to things.

So you're gonna learn off them if they do something.

Oh, I didn't know you could do it that way.

Speaker A: 00:25:52

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 00:25:53

And sometimes you gotta relinquish the control that.

And because they're there for a reason, you trust that people that you work with.

So give them a chance.

Like what's the worst can happen?

Like you can make a mistake.

Everyone makes mistakes.

But you could learn from it.

They could learn from it.

Speaker A: 00:26:09

Yeah.

I've got to get better at it.

Speaker B: 00:26:11

It's hard.

It is hard.

Speaker A: 00:26:12

Yeah, it's hard.

So when you started doing Milkshake then what was the music there?

Because that's a student night.

Speaker B: 00:26:18

Yeah, Shoot.

At night.

So I started.

This is a fun fact.

rking at Ministry of sound in: 2005

There's no one there.

No one in the world has played at that club.

And especially in the main room more than me at Ministry of Sound.

So the start was things like Lil Wayne and Millie.

Things like Kanye Stronger.

What else is big?

Soulja Boy.

Those were like the classic songs that were big then and then now it's.

Speaker A: 00:26:51

Still vinyl at that point.

Speaker B: 00:26:54

No, I think I moving CDs.

Speaker A: 00:26:57

Right.

Speaker B: 00:26:57

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you know when you.

You burn the CDs?

I wish I went straight from vinyl to Serato.

But then I wouldn't have got used to working on CDJs, I guess.

Speaker A: 00:27:07

Yeah.

It's like the cue points.

Speaker B: 00:27:08

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:27:09

And stuff, isn't it?

Speaker B: 00:27:10

But yeah.

So that was the stuff I used.

CDs then.

And then I think used CDs for about two, three years and then went straight to Serato.

Speaker A: 00:27:18

Never looked back.

Speaker B: 00:27:19

Yeah, it's the greatest thing, isn't it?

It's the greatest invention.

Speaker A: 00:27:22

Yeah, it's.

It took me a while to trust it.

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:27:26

You sound cynical about it, man.

Speaker A: 00:27:28

I was at first.

And like.

Because I remember going out and playing and hearing it, it always seemed to sound better on a Mac and I always had Windows machines at that point.

And also, yeah, I just didn't have that trust.

So.

So I would.

When I first started taking Serato out, I'd still take shitloads of records.

Cause I just did.

I just.

Just for the what if.

And I remember playing my mates.

God, it would have been 30th.

Speaker B: 00:27:53

Adam, are you a warrior?

Are you cautious?

Speaker A: 00:27:56

I'm risk averse.

Speaker B: 00:27:57

You really?

Speaker A: 00:27:58

Yeah, yeah.

And like.

Yeah, I remember in the early days of Serato, I went down to.

Yeah.

I want to say it was a mate's 30th.

So what would that have been?

That still would have been.

Well after Sarato came out.

Speaker B: 00:28:11

Yeah, yeah.

That's like: 2011

Speaker A: 00:28:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, maybe it wasn't his 30th.

Whatever it was.

Anyway, mate's birthday went and DJ'd it and there was a couple of people using Serato and it all went tits up.

I think probably like the head shells.

Yeah, it was probably the head shells.

Cause you know when it just starts playing backwards.

Cause like one of the pins is bad or whatever.

It was doing all of that.

And then I. I had to go on and play again and I just felt really smug.

Speaker B: 00:28:39

Because you had vinyl with you.

Speaker A: 00:28:40

Yeah, vinyl wins in the end, you know.

But yeah, yeah, I'm very risk averse like that.

Speaker B: 00:28:45

It's.

I am the opposite of you.

And I should like.

Andy's like you.

He.

He will have every situation prepared, whatever happens.

Whereas I'm like, we're okay without a plan B.

Plan A is going to go well.

And it's not always the case.

But recently I've been more prepared with things, I think.

Yeah, you have to when you're representing an artist.

Because if an artist is on stage and something goes wrong, they blame the artist.

It's not you.

I'm cool with it going wrong in my set because I can use the mic or I can.

There'll be ways to get around it.

But I don't want an artist.

I don't want Eve to look bad on stage.

My job is to be.

Make her look, the very best and sound the best.

Speaker A: 00:29:26

Well, there was that one.

Where was it?

Biggie, like, chucked his bottle at Big Cap because something went wrong instead of no.

Speaker B: 00:29:31

And that wasn't his fault.

But I guess Biggie didn't know the situation.

Yeah, but we have.

We're in a day where we have a second mic, so I can talk straight into areas, say, look, this is the situation.

Right?

Speaker A: 00:29:44

Right.

So you can work through it together.

So did things start to jump off quite quickly when you were established with that residency?

Because that's a good.

A good strong brand to be like your spring.

Speaker B: 00:29:54

It's a great brand, but no, it didn't.

It didn't at all.

o I started working around in: 2005

I think it took a good solid five or six years of working that night, doing stuff for Trevor, doing.

Working like the events in London, the hip hop events, black event, music events.

I was desperate at that point to try and get on one.

Extra desperate.

And it never happened.

It was so frustrating towards the end of that year.

Like, say: 2010

Nothing's.

I've been doing it for five years.

All my friends that I went to uni with are making money doing their.

Their five years on after their graduate jobs, and I'm still here giving out flyers in student halls.

But then I.

When I came out of uni, I did an internship with Warner Music Atlantic Records, and I worked with a guy called Matchstick.

And he.

He was a tough boss, but he was wicked.

Like, I learned so much from him.

And we'd be.

I was the guy sending out records to DJs.

I was a.

The person in the mail room.

And then in: 2013

I got a call.

Maybe I've got an American artist that needs a tour dj.

But we'll come back to that.

But.

And it turned out to be Eve.

So you just never know.

Have you seen that meme where there's two people digging for diamonds?

Speaker A: 00:31:24

I don't know.

Speaker B: 00:31:24

No, there's two.

And then one guy is so close to getting the diamonds and he's walking off, and the other guy is still far away, but he's.

He's just carrying on.

You just never know when your break's gonna happen.

And I wish I knew that at: 2010

It's so frustrating.

Speaker A: 00:31:43

Yeah, yeah.

So what other stuff were you doing for Trevor through that time.

Speaker B: 00:31:47

or him a lot of places and at: 2012

So we.

He had an.

He had an R B and hip hop room on Pete Song's night.

And at the time there was no R B and hip hop played on in Ibiza.

And it wasn't super super, people didn't know about it.

But when people went in there it got busy.

But he just wanted me to promote it.

So I went out to Ibiz for two summers.

Speaker A: 00:32:19

Was that kind of.

Because I'm not sure on my years.

But I remember like when Gatecrasher tried to like expand and stuff, we, me and a couple of other mates and stuff, we'd played at Gatecrasher in Nottingham.

And I remember there was this really strong like no R and B policy.

Speaker B: 00:32:37

Really.

Speaker A: 00:32:37

Yeah.

Which was fine for me because I didn't have any R and B.

Speaker B: 00:32:40

So what were you playing?

Speaker A: 00:32:42

I ended up playing a load of 80s boogie stuff, disco to an empty room.

Speaker B: 00:32:46

Okay, okay.

Speaker A: 00:32:48

I was in like the VIP room and just no one was there.

Speaker B: 00:32:50

I loved Gatecrashers.

I thought they were wicked.

The one in Birmingham and we did Nottingham, was it D.J.

One step that did that was a resident there.

But yeah, sure.

But yeah, we.

I'd promote Trevor's nights there.

So we would go up there on weekends, would make mix CDs, would go to retail stores and give them to girls that work in stores and say, look, I've got this event coming up.

And we.

We'd have a whole campaign to promote those parties.

That's the sort of stuff I was doing in those period.

Speaker A: 00:33:22

So kind of like street teams.

Speaker B: 00:33:23

Yeah, I was a street team for a lot of my life.

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:33:26

Yeah.

But yeah, just with the R and B, I feel like certainly around where we were, it seemed to be a lot to say in Derby as well.

Like a lot of the trouble seemed to be around the big sort of R B club when that was like kicking out and stuff.

So it seemed.

It seemed up here at least to be like associated with more of the sort of really violent stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 00:33:46

Shame.

Yeah.

I guess it did have that connotation where you'd have trouble in it, but I never really experienced it as such.

Speaker A: 00:33:56

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:33:57

And this.

Yeah, no one talks about that now as well.

Which is a great thing.

Speaker A: 00:34:00

Yeah.

But like it comes and goes like.

Like jungle got like that, didn't it?

Yeah, when it was.

When the drugs changed and stuff, it became a bit more.

A bit more moody and stuff.

I think it just happens.

So when we chatted on the phone, you mentioned that you were working in Leicester at one point.

Speaker B: 00:34:17

Leicester Square.

Easy to easy.

Speaker A: 00:34:20

So, yeah, when we were talking on the phone before, you mentioned that you had a gig in Leicester Square at one point, and that was a real sort of baptism and fire.

What gig was that?

Speaker B: 00:34:30

Is a nightclub called Metra.

Unless the Square is like Times Square in New York, it's full of tourists, you're there.

If you're there for a night out, you're there not for music.

I think the worst clubs or worst places to DJ for, as a DJ are places where music's not your.

The focal point.

So that was the case.

These guys were just there for a night out and you don't know what sort of bag of people that you're going to get in there.

And you can have one song and it'll clear the dance floor.

And we.

Me, Andy was a resident there and it was.

It was brutal.

But it really sharpened you as a dj, because at certain times you have the dance floor packed and the manager or the owner would be like, we need the bars busy.

You need to clear the dance floor.

We need.

We need to do that.

And I had to do that a lot.

There's.

I'll tell you another situation.

I was a resident at Jazz Cafe on Saturday.

It sounds amazing, but I played the 80s and 90s cheese pop night.

But it was epic.

And I learned so much about music doing that event.

And we'd go on after, say, Chaka Khan or something like that.

There'd be a packed house, people listen to a real amazing, credible artist.

And then I'd have to go on and clear the dance floor so that we can get our club people in.

Yeah, there'll be a huge club.

And I remember walking in late once and a couple of punters are coming out.

Their concert goes, oh, there's a club night on.

Should we just stay?

He goes, Nah, the DJs rubbish.

He was playing Karma Chameleon when I came last and that was my main song.

Culture Club.

Karma Chameleon would always help clear the.

Clear the club.

But it's a banger, though.

Oh, no, I don't know about that.

But, yeah, a lot of people love it.

But I think people that are into, say, Tedra Moses weren't into Karmic Amelia.

Speaker A: 00:36:22

Yeah, yeah, because.

What was that one like?

Cause I was reading about it.

Because you did that for quite a lot was that six years.

Speaker B: 00:36:28

Six years, Adam.

It was epic.

Genuinely, it was epic because that's when we started to really enjoy Serato Muck around.

I did the warm up and there's a guy called Jake, my good friend, who I went to uni with.

He's one that got me the gig.

He was the mate.

Like when we were doing Friday nights at uni, he did the Pop and Cheese room and I did the R B and hip Hop room, right?

And he goes, look, you should come in and do this.

And I learned so much about music and if I didn't do that night, I won't be doing some of the really cool private parties that I get to do now because it taught me so much about music.

Speaker A: 00:37:01

What sort of stuff do you mean?

Just like general stuff about what different music works or what people love.

Speaker B: 00:37:07

What are generational songs that are unifying of people no matter what age race?

Like the Michael Jackson's the Human Leagues, the Sweet Dreams, the Bon Jovi's the Journeys, the George Michaels.

All of those sort of tracks that are just unifying.

If you.

If I played a raw Wedding, I need to know all of that stuff.

Speaker A: 00:37:31

Yeah, we were.

We were going to talk.

We nearly touched upon this outside.

So with that.

When you're doing that for six years, right, something that I used to find in the working world is I'd get a new job.

Never anything particularly like skilled or anything, but I'd get a new job my first three months, I'd learn loads and then I'd be like, right, all I'm doing now, it's just time served and minor tweaks.

Do you have that with that sort of night?

Would you have had that sort of curve?

Do you get to a point where it's like there's only so much you can do to push?

Or were you always able to develop what you were doing when you've got such like a tight scope of what you're doing with the night?

Speaker B: 00:38:12

That's a really good question, Adam, because there's certain hits that everyone wants to hear.

When you come to an 80s and 90s pop night, you're gonna have to play the Michael Jackson's and all the songs I mentioned.

Yeah, there's only.

But we would dig and we would play them in a different way, or we could cut them up in a different way, or we'd use the mic in a different way.

And ultimately the reason why that gig was so amazing and maybe we didn't grow as much as we first did in the first three months, like you said, was because the crowd was so euphoric.

You couldn't help but love playing there because it was so much fun.

It was.

Yeah, it was really, really good.

I had.

It was so much fun.

On the Friday nights, I played at a really cool West End club called Drury Club.

It was like a boutique club.

You'd have Kevin Hart there.

Then you have the Prince of Sweden or King of Sweden.

Oh, no king, but the Prince of Sweden.

And then you.

You'd have Amber Rose or Virgil Abloh.

And it's just like a mixture of people.

Super cool.

But then the next night, and I'd be playing really cool R and B and hip hop.

And then the next night I'll be playing to a bunch of people having hen parties or someone dressed up as a pot noodle.

Cause they're out with a stag.

And it's two different worlds, but I love them both.

I love them both.

Speaker A: 00:40:47

Yeah, we talked a bit.

Like, it was a while ago that we chatted, but we talked a bit about, like, psychology is an important thing to you, isn't it, with people through DJing.

Speaker B: 00:40:56

Like, I'm re.

I'm really.

I love people.

I like to know people's stories.

When I talk to people, the first thing is like, how'd you get here?

What's.

What's your story?

Like, what's.

I really.

I'm interested.

I'm interested in people, and it's a genuine interest.

And DJing, I'm interested in how can I make these guys dance?

How can I make them happy?

How can I make them think this DJs the bomb?

That guy, just.

How did he play that?

How do you know I like that song?

I think it's just.

It's so psychological, DJing, because we take risks.

That song's gonna work.

So let me push it a little bit left.

Okay, that worked.

Let's do it even more.

Oh, that didn't work.

Let's dial it back and go a different direction.

Speaker A: 00:41:38

So on that coming back to my risk aversion, right, I would go out quite a lot when I was DJing more.

Speaker B: 00:41:45

And you'd have a prepared set.

Speaker A: 00:41:47

No, it wasn't so much that, but I'd have a lot of stuff I play, but I was probably quite often.

So, yeah, I was kind of more on that.

Like the indie rap, but the accessible stuff.

Not like.

Not like the moody or like really super combo.

I'm not playing, like, atmosphere.

Yeah.

Saturday night in Derby.

You know what I mean?

But I'D have certain stuff, you know, my kind of regular bits.

And I would so often take out mo money, mo problems.

Absolute banger.

Right.

And so often I wouldn't play it because I thought this is going to open the door to people asking me for a load of shiny suit jiggy stuff.

Oh really?

I don't have.

And I don't know how to come back from that.

Speaker B: 00:42:27

So I wouldn't go so far down the path that it's impossible to go back because the people that were there initially that you're entertaining, they might have left a room or.

Speaker A: 00:42:36

Yeah, like I haven't got Ja Rule, I haven't got Yin Yang Twins, you know what, you know, this stuff that was there at the time.

So it's like, if I do that, I'm just gonna be going down a cul de sac.

Speaker B: 00:42:45

That's a really interesting point.

Speaker A: 00:42:47

Yeah, yeah.

And like.

Yeah, so I was, I was quite risk averse at times and I would get quite put off as well.

By the times where you're like, yeah, this is a banger, I'm gonna put it on.

And you just, you just see like it might be a song that, like there's a, there's like an RJD2AC alone song that I, I always thought it's got that kind of disco boogie sort of thing to it and I'm just like, I'd play it in and amongst all of that sort of stuff and just like, you just see people just like, what's this?

You know, and I'd just be like, what's the point?

Speaker B: 00:43:20

And, and what sort of year was that?

Speaker A: 00:43:23

have been probably around to: 2008

Speaker B: 00:43:31

Do you think when you started in while playing at uni, you could play that stuff and people would be cool?

Speaker A: 00:43:37

Yeah.

So I remember what, what I found beautiful is I only had a few records.

I was like beg, steal, borrow, get things on sale, stuff like that.

Speaker B: 00:43:48

So, you know, you could cost a lot of money.

Speaker A: 00:43:50

Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 00:43:51

The barrier to entry to DJing, that's an economic term, is, was so hard back then, you needed to spend money to play out a lot of money.

Speaker A: 00:44:03

Yeah.

I'd only ever like drop a good amount of cash on records if I knew I was doing like a bar set where I was going to get paid that and I'd spend the money.

Speaker B: 00:44:11

A smart way to do it, to.

Speaker A: 00:44:13

Take, you know, to take the records and stuff and whereas I'd do the opposite.

Speaker B: 00:44:17

I'd buy stuff that I really liked.

I will Never see a nightclub or anything outside my own bedroom.

Speaker A: 00:44:23

Yeah, I'm more like that now.

Oh yeah, yeah, because he's just like, yeah, that should be good to listen to.

Like I've got a turntable set up in my kitchen now.

Speaker B: 00:44:34

Oh dear.

Speaker A: 00:44:34

Yeah, that's where I do most of my listening to.

Speaker B: 00:44:36

Oh really?

Speaker A: 00:44:36

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:44:37

That's quite cool.

Speaker A: 00:44:38

It's always a dump.

My kids leave it dumps.

Speaker B: 00:44:40

I just clean it up.

Yeah, my mate Costa, so I came with, he has a turntable setup and it's beautiful.

It's like this, it's like a mid century lounge and it just, it makes me wish I never got rid of my vinyl.

Speaker A: 00:44:54

Yeah, yeah.

So I read as well in my research that you were a resident at Gay Now.

I've spoken to a few people on this podcast about just how important gay clubs were in terms of getting like dance music over to the UK and stuff like that.

So when you, when you're playing in a club like G A Y, is there like, do you feel any sort of pressure to be like breaking stuff or being really like contemporary and fresh or.

Speaker B: 00:45:23

So I was in the R B room for J.Y.

And this is.

I, I was only a resident for maybe like three or four months and then they moved from Astoria because Astoria was shut down because they're doing the Lizzie lion works there.

But it was so educational for me because I learned what that crowd wanted and they were just, They're a great crowd, man.

If you, if, if they like you, you can, you can have it rocking and just learning their taste, the music.

And I think it's so important we, we had this conversation outside about doing so many different things.

I never.

And this is, this is out to Hanif.

He always says just, just say yes.

It's at the end of the day you're going to get paid, just say yes to things.

And that sounds mercenary, but the reason I said yes wasn't to just get paid.

It was also to get those hours under the belt play to as many different people from many different backgrounds.

And it's like going back to your point about learning the psychologicals of people and what tastes people have and things like that.

Speaker A: 00:46:32

Yeah, I played for the football the other week.

Speaker B: 00:46:34

Oh, did you?

Which one?

Speaker A: 00:46:35

Derby County.

Speaker B: 00:46:36

Oh, did you?

At a stadium?

Speaker A: 00:46:37

No, in the fan zone, just outside.

And with something like that, I'm always concerned as well when DJ about am I dropping this tune at the right time?

It's kind of like, it's the controlling the energy that I find interesting.

Speaker B: 00:46:50

It's so important.

Me and Andy did the England games of Box park in Wembley.

And, like, Andy's the key, the king, of just holding back to the right time.

Because it's so easy to feel the pressure.

Cause it started to get busy and we can play the big songs early.

No, you.

You want to make sure you peak at that very point when you're handing it over to the game and just hold your nerve.

And that comes with experience, I think.

Speaker A: 00:47:18

Yeah.

I think something I do sometimes, particularly when I'm going out playing vinyl, is I kind of.

I let songs play out, which I think's fine anyway, because songs are songs.

Right.

Speaker B: 00:47:31

Especially early on in the night.

Speaker A: 00:47:32

Yeah, yeah.

And you think I'm burnout, pacing myself.

But then I go, I've got 20 minutes left.

I've got loads of heat that I want to play.

And, like, I'll kind of, like, compress it a bit too much.

Speaker B: 00:47:41

Yeah, but that's still really good because you end the night on a high.

People are happy.

I've also done this thing recently where I thought, why don't I just burn through some of the big tracks early and see what.

See what?

How I'm going to cope with.

And that would put me outside of my comfort zone.

I try and do that sometimes.

And you discover new music that way.

My crates are so unorganized.

I bet they're the mirror opposite of yours.

I bet yours are so organized.

Speaker A: 00:48:07

No, no, mine are an absolute mess.

Speaker B: 00:48:09

Really.

Speaker A: 00:48:10

Yeah, yeah, but I don't.

I don't.

Are we talking physical or online Serato?

Yeah, my Serato crates are just horrible.

Speaker B: 00:48:19

Really.

So how do you organize your way you play?

Speaker A: 00:48:23

Well, I don't.

I don't really use serato that much.

If I do, it'll be for something really specific, like sort of function.

So I'll.

I'll make a playlist for the specific thing.

I don't do any sort of residencies or anything where I use.

If I did, I'd probably be trying to organize it on the fly.

Speaker B: 00:48:40

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:48:41

And just get it all a bit better.

But quite often with me, I'll just.

Literally just get the full thing and just put it in BPM order.

Speaker B: 00:48:49

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: 00:48:50

And there'll be a lot of stuff in there that, like, I don't even know because it's a lot of like, oh, have you got a folder of this?

Have you got a folder of this?

There's a lot of that.

But, yeah, I'll just kind of go into bpm.

I don't really pay attention to key.

But yeah, I'll just go bpm.

And just.

Because you might just find something that you're not expecting.

It's the same as like when you're digging in a record shop.

I like it when they'll have a section that's just 70s or a section that's just a.

Because you don't know what you're gonna get.

I don't like going by artist because.

Speaker B: 00:49:19

It's like, yeah, whatever, that's a good point.

Not knowing what, seeing something that you'd unexpectedly didn't think you'd see.

For example, I feel that way about requests.

A lot of DJs hate requests and most of them aren't that bad.

But yeah, sometimes you can get the best request and you're like, that is a brilliant track.

I'll tell you a story.

And I didn't want to do these like name droppy stories, but I did U2's end of tour party.

This is like maybe a year or so before COVID and everyone was there, people like Madonna and Mick Jagger and Chris Martin and just, just everyone who's anyone in music was a house.

And I was DJing from 7 till about 11.

And I literally did all my research.

What does Edge like?

What does Bono like?

And I tried to play all of that music.

Not one person was on the dance floor the whole night.

And the guy whose house it was came up to me about 11, 10, 30, goes, let's start wrapping it up.

And I thought, oh man, he asked me to dj.

This party didn't get anyone to dance.

What's he going to think of me?

Then one lady came up to me and goes, can you play new radicals?

Get what you give.

I thought, yeah, of course.

What am I going to lose?

What a great selection.

I like that song, played it, everyone came on the dance floor.

And then after that I just thought, let's go down that line, take that little risk.

Four hours later, packed dance floor, everyone.

Yeah, you just never know.

If you just take that little risk of seeing something unexpectedly or hearing a song as a request from someone could change the whole course of the night.

Speaker A: 00:51:03

Yeah.

So on the celebrity parties then, is there anything that's like inherently different about to other gigs?

And do you think that experience as a runner dealing with celebrities early on kind of helped you to know how to conduct yourself with these things?

Speaker B: 00:51:19

Yeah, I think the runner thing and I just think working with Trevor and Haneef was just brilliant because they just taught you how to etiquette, how to deal with things high Pressure situations.

And ultimately it's not about you, it's about them and me taking my camera out or me trying to chat to people when they're having a good time.

It's not the dumb thing.

It is very similar.

It's just like playing in.

In a club.

You.

You're there to entertain them, you know, to be seen and heard, but not disturbing people outside of the music.

Speaker A: 00:52:03

What was I gonna ask you next?

So Eve, then, Eve, what's that experience?

Because that's like a big artist to be, like, touring with.

Speaker B: 00:52:12

She's wicked, man.

Like, she, her and Max, her husband Max have changed my life.

And that came about.

I used to be DJ for.

I used to DJ for Cleo Soul.

Speaker A: 00:52:24

Yes.

Speaker B: 00:52:25

And I DJed for her for like two, three years, and she stopped making music for a while.

And then Max Matchstick from who I work with at Atlantic, goes, look, I know you DJ'd for Cleo.

I've got an American artist that needs a tour dj.

And he called me because I work with a female artist and I thought, why not?

Let's check it, let's meet the artist and see who it is.

I walk in the room and it's even like, holy sh.

Holy shit, it's Eve.

And she's just so cool.

And first gig went really well.

It was a.

A nightclub I did in Camden.

It's a night called Lubdo.

It's quite a big night up north in Newcastle.

Speaker A: 00:53:07

Based over here.

Speaker B: 00:53:08

Pardon?

Speaker A: 00:53:09

Is Eve based?

Speaker B: 00:53:10

Yeah, she lives in London.

She has done for the last maybe 15, 13 years, but she still goes to States a lot, spends.

Splits her time.

But anyway, second gig, I completely messed up.

It was actually a G A Y.

And it was her big press event gig for her new album, Lip Lock at the time.

And I thought, oh, I got the track order all wrong.

She gave me the look of death on stage.

Unlike Biggie, she didn't cuss me out the mic.

She just looked back at me and I know I've messed up.

And then she carried on because she's the ultimate professional.

And then.

Speaker A: 00:53:46

Is that even worse?

Speaker B: 00:53:47

Yeah.

Yeah.

Especially when it's someone that you respect and have so much love for.

When you've let them down, it just.

Sometimes you don't even need to get told off.

You just, you know, oh, it's like when your parents said, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.

So I went back afterwards.

We went to.

I went to dressing room.

I'm really sorry about it.

It's fine.

It's Fine.

She's her cool self.

Eve is just so cool.

And then I thought to myself, well, you know what?

I did two gigs for a Grammy Award winning artist.

It was good while it lasted.

And then two months went past.

I got Corgo.

He's got a gig in Lebanon two days time.

Can you do the gig?

I'm like, holy shit.

This might be my chance to redeem myself.

And then the rest is history.

That was 13 years ago.

More than that, actually.

Maybe.

When is that?

2013.

So, yeah, about 13 years ago.

Speaker A: 00:54:37

Amazing.

Speaker B: 00:54:38

Yeah.

Honestly, some of the experiences I've had with working with Eve, working with her husband Max, who owns Gumball, is just.

Honestly, it's life changing and it's.

It's.

I'm so grateful.

Speaker A: 00:54:53

Yeah.

Because the Gumball, I've seen bits on your Instagram and stuff.

Like, it looks like a lot of fun.

Is that the reality?

Speaker B: 00:55:00

It is fun.

It.

Some of the situations are crazy.

I could be DJing and we'd be DJing in an airport, just about to get a private jet for to go to Japan when the cars are all going into a cargo plane and like, what's my life?

I'm DJing in a private terminal and a private.

To all of these people, like, who are superstars in their own fields, it's mental.

Gumball's really good.

It's tiring.

It's a tiring week, but it's brilliant.

And one of the best things about it is I got to bring Andy in it.

Then CJ beats on it, and now my friend Luke, who I run a DJ business with, and it's brought opportunity to other people and that's the best thing.

And it's so.

It's such a sick company.

Adam.

I know many people know this, but I work Mondays there in the office because I'm trying to work on.

On their clothing line.

I'm massively into clothing and for me, it's an experience I can learn from Max, just sitting in his meetings with him.

I was telling someone this morning that it's like a masterclass of marketing.

Listening to this guy talk, it's priceless.

What else am I going to do on a Monday?

Speaker A: 00:56:17

But this is where we're talking about what the value is.

Beyond the obvious.

Speaker B: 00:56:20

I don't get paid to do it.

Speaker A: 00:56:21

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:56:22

But I want to do it.

A, because those guys have changed my life.

And two, I want to learn about the clothing industry.

I want to do something.

And we're going to do.

You're wearing a bathing ape T shirt and one of my first projects is we're gonna do a collaboration with them next year.

Yeah.

So it's super sick.

The rally takes place in Japan and Korea and we're doing a clothing line with them.

So, yeah, that's one of my.

Perfect.

I love it, man.

It's like I said, man, you don't look at.

Don't chase the money.

The money will come.

Speaker A: 00:56:51

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Like, on the clothing and stuff.

Like, I noticed, you know, you're always really, like, well turned out and stuff, and you got style.

You're welcome.

Because I remember, like, back in my sort of battling era, I was off to do a battle, I can't remember which one it was, and DJ Angelo was like, so what you wearing then?

I'm like, what?

He's like, yeah, yeah, what?

You know, you gotta think about what you're wearing, you know, when you're DJing and it.

Like, that's kind of paraphrasing, but, like, I just never thought about it mattering what I wear.

Speaker B: 00:57:24

Angelo's British, isn't he?

Yeah, yeah, I know.

Angelo lives in Germany now, right?

Yes, yes.

Super cool.

I guess you do have to remember, like, a lot of people, comedians are the opposite.

So when I work rom, he goes.

He never.

He tries to keep it plain because when he's telling a joke, he doesn't want people looking at a biggie picture on his T shirt.

He wants them to focus on him.

But when you're doing DMC or you're on stage, you want to be memorable.

Like, oh, that fly guy that was wearing the Hawaiian shirt with all those skills, or the guy that wore the fedora.

You know what I mean?

You wanna stick out for that as well as your music.

Speaker A: 00:58:08

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 00:58:09

With the.

Speaker A: 00:58:11

With the mic side of things.

When did you learn the mic?

Were you straight on that when you were doing the student parties and stuff at uni?

Speaker B: 00:58:19

I use it a bit.

I watched a lot of people, like, DJ swing when he came.

He was brilliant.

But I love, like, some of the cheese and pop guys, the way they use the mic.

It's brilliant.

I try the best.

People that use the mics know when not to talk.

Same as scratching.

When they know when not to scratch, I'll try and do it.

The mic should only add as a sprinkling.

It should only add value.

So me chatting on the mic while Travis Scott is rapping is pointless.

But when there's about to be a break and there's going to be a euphoric moment, if I can add to that moment, I'll use the mic.

Speaker A: 00:58:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because I never really got into using the mic.

It's something I do want to get into.

Speaker B: 00:59:05

Adam, you're a super technical DJ.

I can already tell you're technical.

You're the DJs DJ.

Because a lot of people are like that.

I try, yeah, I try.

Speaker A: 00:59:13

But yeah, yeah.

I've never kind of got my head around the mic.

Speaker B: 00:59:17

Sometimes you don't need to use it.

Some of the great people.

Do you know who I think is epic on the mic?

And I copy so many of his lines.

Do you know Rob Percy's.

Rob Percy's great, but he has this guy called Bobby Champagne that does.

He's so intelligent and quick witted and some of his lines are just epic.

And he's probably one of the best hosts, I think, in the country.

Speaker A: 00:59:40

I think Bobby's really unassuming as well because you wouldn't look at him and meet him and think he's just like a beast on the mic.

Speaker B: 00:59:47

Yeah.

You look at him, he looks like a librarian.

And when he comes on the mic is, hello.

Speaker A: 00:59:52

Yeah.

He's just got this little glint in his eyes, this confidence and he's just.

Speaker B: 00:59:57

So intelligent with it.

I mean, he's a. I think he's a Cambridge Oxford graduate.

He's super quick witted.

He's.

Speaker A: 01:00:03

Yeah, he's the best.

Well, he works in TV production as well, didn't he?

So you've got to be like, quick thinking.

Speaker B: 01:00:08

He's so quick.

Him and Romesh is obviously a top tier comedian, but they're just so quick.

Yeah.

Speaker A: 01:00:16

How did the Ramesh gigs come about then?

Speaker B: 01:00:18

The Ramesh gig came about because me and my wife was watching Asian Provocateurs when him and Ramesh and his mum went to Sri Lanka.

Yeah.

And they did this thing, it was an amazing series and they do something where they'd do a scene and then they'd walk it.

They'd do a slow mo scene and it'll be like Stormzy or Skepta Shutdown.

And I'm like, he must love his hip hop.

He must love his hip hop.

And then he was.

Then he started a hip hop Save my Life podcast.

Speaker A: 01:00:46

Yeah.

Speaker B: 01:00:46

And I had a mutual friend called Nihal.

Nihal was on Radio 6, I think.

No, he was on one of the.

He had a big broadcasting career with the BBC Radio 1 all the way down to Radio 6 or Radio 2 or whatever and Radio 4, I think.

But he's close friends with Ramesh and I thought, you know what Speak to him, Nihal.

See if he would like a tour DJ or a DJ before his sets because he loves hip hop.

I'm perfect for him.

He's Sri Lanka.

My parents are South Indian.

And look, a lot of the Americans do it.

Hardly any of the British DJs do it harder.

Any of the British comedians do it.

Why don't you try it?

And then I did something for his podcast.

I just got on with him.

He's just, he's just another.

I'm just so blessed that all the people I work with are nice people.

And he was a really nice guy.

Did the podcast.

Then he.

I did a show with him and he really liked it.

Then he goes, let's, let's just do the whole tour.

Did the whole tour.

And then this last tour we did the arena ones and I thought, I can't just play a set.

I've got to add value.

I think this is a really important point actually, is how if in, in all of these situations, how am I going to add value?

How am I going to add value to Eve?

How am I going to add value to Ramesh's show?

How am I going to elevate them and their show?

And for the arena one, I thought, let's do a history of hip hop show, but with the videos.

But it's not just videos of Tribe or Wu Tang or three six Mafia.

It's going to be funny skits because it's a comedy show.

So you'd have like mystical shake your ass and then you'd have Ramen Roman Robin Rom twerking on the screen.

Cut to that from one of his shows.

So, so was this.

Speaker A: 01:02:35

Were you Vjing?

Speaker B: 01:02:36

Yeah.

Vj.

Yeah.

So we did that for the arena.

You had to kind of level up for arenas because you kind of need it a little bit more because they're all sitting down.

It's not like a hip hop show where you got the front standing up and that.

They're all sitting down.

They want to.

They're not going to sit there dancing, they're going to sit there waiting to get entertained.

So you kind of need to bring it to them.

Speaker A: 01:02:56

Yeah.

I had the guy on his Ice Cubes tour dj and he was saying about when he came to England, he couldn't believe it because everywhere is just like seated and it's like, how are you supposed to like kind of blow the roof off when people sat down?

Speaker B: 01:03:09

Americans are great.

They're great on a mic.

They're show bizarre, so they kind of get it.

But that arena Tour I'm actually starting tomorrow.

I think they're working on Romish's tour for next year for the arena stuff.

So it's.

I'm gonna help.

Get Rob to help me out with that as well.

It's.

And it's so important to speak to people like other DJs.

And what's your opinion on that?

What's your opinion?

Do you think I should take it down that road?

Speaker A: 01:03:38

Yeah, yeah.

Get their experiences and insights and stuff.

So.

As well, you've got kind of a side hustle from the dj, which is like the modeling side of things as well.

Speaker B: 01:03:46

Yeah.

Speaker A: 01:03:47

I don't know.

Speaker B: 01:03:48

That's a side.

This came up.

Carry on.

Speaker A: 01:03:51

But yeah, I was just going to ask you how that came about and how does it work with.

How does it work with DJing?

Speaker B: 01:03:58

I mean, it came about because.

Look like a lot of great things.

I do something like gumball and then someone gravitates towards you or they see you wearing a pair of sunglasses that were given out to all the rally entrants and they thought, oh, maybe he should do a campaign.

He's a dj.

It's credible.

I did that with Carrera.

I loved it.

I didn't have any intentions of going down that road.

There's never my plan to model for them or do a campaign with Mulberry or something like that.

It just happened and it's cool.

And how do I choose which ones I do?

I do stuff that I wouldn't do.

A brand that I wouldn't really feel.

Speaker A: 01:04:38

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 01:04:39

If I did a brand, I'd wear their stuff or it's got to be something that's.

I like.

Speaker A: 01:04:46

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 01:04:47

So that's.

That's how it happened.

Speaker A: 01:04:50

So just going right back then to Milkshake and doing the student nights, given that that's always like a younger.

A younger crowd.

Over the years, if you had to change, like how you mix and stuff like that, like, have you got.

Had to like go quicker and shorter with the mixes and stuff.

Speaker B: 01:05:08

100%.

And that always happens.

You have to, I think from playing songs longer when you started to move into quicker to quicker mixes, to more genre, different playing different genres, to now with stems playing lots of refixes.

Yeah.

100.

I think you always have to stay current.

And that's why I will always be a resident of Milkshake until they kick me out.

Because I think the youth detect that the youth are the people that define what.

How we play.

Really?

I think.

Speaker A: 01:05:44

Yeah.

Does it make it a lot harder because of how everyone, because of how everyone accesses so much different music based on their algorithms and stuff.

Does it make it a lot harder to find the tunes that you know are gonna like, work really well, like the newer ones?

Speaker B: 01:06:02

No, I think it makes it easier because you got the data right.

So when I go and play a club gig abroad, for example, I will try and always look at Shazam Charts because Shazam.

People who Shazam things.

That's you're like about a couple of months or a month ahead of the actual charts itself.

So if deshazamming it, that means they like it.

That means let's.

Let's download those songs.

If they like those songs, let's download some more along those lines.

Shazam is amazing.

Yeah.

Smart one to do.

Shazam Charts are really good.

Speaker A: 01:06:34

Yeah.

Speaker B: 01:06:35

Get that tip from me.

Free DJs.

Speaker A: 01:06:37

Yeah, I almost want to edit that out.

It's like the secret sauce, isn't it?

Speaker B: 01:06:41

Let everyone have it.

Speaker A: 01:06:42

That's really good.

So I think just to wrap things up then.

I think we've been through a lot.

I mean, is there what like that beer's gone to my head?

Speaker B: 01:06:53

That was the plan.

Speaker A: 01:06:56

So.

So you've had like, you've kind of done a lot of different things.

I can't imagine there's much more to tick off.

Is there anything that you're like, now I really need to do this in the next 10 years or whatever.

Speaker B: 01:07:12

You know what, When I was younger, like the first period when I started working Milkshake, all I wanted to do is be on radio.

And it never happened.

And yeah, ever since then, I never really planned anything because sometimes I think the best thing that never ever happened to me is me not doing radio.

I think, yeah, I think that's what's right for you.

Will never miss you.

I think if you continue working hard, take opportunities to treat people well, bring people through, add value.

You never know where it's going to take you.

Speaker A: 01:07:47

Yeah, I think the, the other thing that I've heard about you is just.

And it like it's not going to be much of a surprise.

Like everyone says, like you're just so easy to work with and stuff.

Is that something that's like been deliberate or it's just in you?

Speaker B: 01:08:02

Speaking of which, I thought we were supposed to have champagne and caviar here while we're here and what's up with that?

Speaker A: 01:08:06

I thought you were getting it.

You offered.

Speaker B: 01:08:08

I did offer.

No, I'm easy.

Yeah, of course I'm easy to work with, man.

You know why I play other people's music.

I, I do that for a living.

There are so many situations where I am at a party or I, I did a, I did a royal wedding for a crown prince.

Like I'm not supposed to be in these circles.

I have to pinch myself.

Like this is such a blessing to do there.

I've done so many bad jobs.

So me kick up a fuss about something.

Unless it's something really bad.

I wouldn't ever kick up a fuss about something.

Speaker A: 01:08:39

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 01:08:40

I'm playing other people's music.

I'm not changing people's lives.

I'm not a brain surgeon.

I'm not a teacher that's teaching in a really tough school and changing kids lives.

I'm playing music.

Speaker A: 01:08:52

Yeah.

It's a healthy perspective to have a.

Speaker B: 01:08:53

Thing 100% and I think having friends outside of DJing is good to keep you healthy and keep you grounded.

Speaker A: 01:09:01

Yeah, yeah.

Bit of perspective.

So what else is coming up?

Speaker B: 01:09:06

What else is coming up?

So what am I doing?

I have got a. I'm going to LA next week with Eve and then we come back doing a couple of shows with Eve and festivals this summer.

Then I do a tour of Asia myself in the sum in September, also do a show with Ramesh Radio 2.

Then October we do a European tour.

Eve is headlining on on her 25th anniversary or is it 30th anniversary of Scorpion and then four days after that I'm on tour with Ramesh all the way to April and then that's it for me for the next year.

But I don't know, anything can change Adam.

Like my life, it's shout out to my wife because she has to put up with all of this.

April, she's very understanding, super forgiving.

Like we had a plan to do some stuff.

It's her week off next week and I get a call saying, oh, Eve has a show in la.

It's like we're always on call, like a doctor on call.

So got to do the gig and she's really understanding about it and it's cool though.

She's got a good relationship with Eve.

So when we do go on long tour she can come and stay with us on tour bus or go to a couple of shows.

So it's.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

I work with really, really nice people and it's.

Yeah, it's a blessing, man.

Speaker A: 01:10:28

I'm lucky.

Speaker B: 01:10:28

I'm very lucky.

I won't forget it.

Speaker A: 01:10:30

Awesome.

Is there anything that we've not covered?

Speaker B: 01:10:33

Anything we've not Covered.

Yeah.

I run a DJ agency.

Me, Andy and a guy called Luke, we run a DJ nc.

It's basically spurned, like most things in my life organically.

I get booked to do somewhere.

We do a good job.

They're like, can we have you every week?

We can't commit to it, but we know some great people.

Let's hook them up with you guys.

And that's how it spurned.

And we have loads of cool clients, from Adidas to Gymshark to Tottenham Hotspur stadium to Wembley Stadium.

And it's really good.

I think it's so important to help other people.

You go far with.

When you travel with others, if you want to go fast, go on your own, but if you want to go far, go with other people.

And I think it's so important to help others out and give other people opportunity.

And it's so useful.

It's not just giving.

My relationship with Rob Percy, for example, he's a freaking epic DJ and he's even better human being, but I know if I can't do a Romesh gig, he's gonna smash it.

He's more appropriate for that gig to me.

Both of them are teachers and, yeah, of course he's more appropriate for that gig than me.

And he's brilliant at it.

He's great on the mic.

He tears it up and he covers me and he helps me out.

So it's not just me giving it to him.

He's.

He's such a super grateful.

Thank you for the gig, Martin.

But, bro, you're helping me out and like, yeah, it's.

It's that.

And he.

People don't realize, oh, I'd love to be a tour dj, but are you easy to travel with?

Are you that nice person that will help?

Say, Eve has eight pieces of luggage.

Are you going to help carry it for?

Are you going to think about things like that?

It's being nice and being helpful and easy to travel with is just as important as shelling it down on the turntables.

Speaker A: 01:12:23

Yeah, it's a really good point.

I do when my mate does video shoots, like.

Like, if it's stuff that I get in, I'll go with him.

And my value's basically like, I'm easy to travel with and I've got a sense of direction because he wouldn't get to places on his own.

Speaker B: 01:12:38

And you're not jarring.

You're not gonna.

Speaker A: 01:12:39

Yeah, I'm just like, do what you want, I'll do what I want.

You know, it's a great.

Speaker B: 01:12:44

We get to see the world.

We get to travel, man.

Like I told you I saw before, I.

Sorry to interrupt you, but I drove through the city yesterday, had a gig near Friendship street.

And I just saw so many people in white shirts and blue collared shirts and just look unhappy.

And I thought they must have walked out their bank.

The bank is paying them probably a nice amount for their life.

Whereas we are doing something we love and we're getting rewarded for it by getting paid.

It's.

It's a.

It's a sick situation.

Speaker A: 01:13:14

Yeah, definitely.

Right.

Mine.

Where can people find you online?

Speaker B: 01:13:18

They can find me everything.

Martin.

Too smooth.

That's M A R T I n the number 2s M double O V E. And if there's any way I can help you or if you're interested in anything that I'm doing, just drop me a message, man.

I'm an approachable guy.

I love people.

Speaker A: 01:13:35

One last question then.

Is there any one record that you think more people should have heard and loved that you think, why has this not got the love?

You know, because we all have the ones that we should be big.

Speaker B: 01:13:45

I love that question.

What a great question.

Okay, You know what?

I'm going to go with a record that we played in the car on the way up here.

I'm cool like that by Digital Planets.

Speaker A: 01:14:00

Is it Digable Planets?

Speaker B: 01:14:01

Digable Planets, yeah.

Speaker A: 01:14:02

Yeah.

Speaker B: 01:14:03

I love that song.

And I just think, dude, that sounds so good.

Even now.

I think.

Was it big back then?

Speaker A: 01:14:11

I don't know.

I don't know if it was over here.

Speaker B: 01:14:13

Yeah.

Speaker A: 01:14:14

I mean, Digable Planet stuff has just aged really well.

Speaker B: 01:14:16

Really well.

Speaker A: 01:14:17

But I think playing over here at some point.

Speaker B: 01:14:19

Really?

Speaker A: 01:14:20

Yeah, I think.

Speaker B: 01:14:20

Let me know when they are.

I think Larry June.

I don't know if you know much about Larry June.

Speaker A: 01:14:25

Yeah.

What's the Alchemist?

Speaker B: 01:14:27

Yeah, really good stuff.

And he's like a rapper that's in his 30s that can prove to the world that you can age in hip hop and still be relevant.

He talks about, like investments and being healthy and cool cars.

And not just cool cars, but like refined.

Being bit more.

Speaker A: 01:14:48

Yeah.

Well, that's what I really liked with 444.

Speaker B: 01:14:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like, what an album.

Speaker A: 01:14:53

Yeah.

I think Jay Z managed to do that.

Yeah.

I'm a bit older.

I've grown up.

And like, he managed to do it without.

He comes across as like a rounded elder.

Speaker B: 01:15:04

It's like a lecture.

Speaker A: 01:15:05

Yeah, yeah.

But a cool lecture, but with wicked beats as well.

Shouts, no id.

Speaker B: 01:15:10

It's so important that people like rock and roll.

They keep coming out of albums and their fans don't say, oh, you're too old for that.

But in hip hop you've got a dog's lifespan pretty much.

But I think it's so important that rappers that are old still tell us their spiel on the world and their take on the world.

And you know what, we're same age.

And when I first started working at a hotel, it's like a five star hotel in London.

And I walked in and they were playing nars.

Whose World is this in the lift.

And I thought this is so cool.

And this is why the world needs more people playing stuff like hip hop.

Because the CEOs now are the people that grew up listening to Illmatic are the people that grew up listening to life after death.

It's so important that 100% the days are where you can't listen to hip hop in fine places is over.

Speaker A: 01:16:02

Well and this is kind of like the premise of the show.

It's like, how does, where does having this passion take you?

What do you learn about things that it's like all that, you know, you read those 50 Cent books and it's like, what did you learn in the streets and apply to the boardroom?

It's kind of like an equivalent that, you know, what skills do you learn from say DJing or whatever it is you learn about relationships, 100 conduct, punctuality, all this sort of thing amongst just learning about learning, you know, so much experience based stuff.

And it's like how, how does that kind of benefit you in the rest of life and stuff like that?

Speaker B: 01:16:39

With, with that being said, do you think people like 50?

If he had a completely different upbringing, just say he was middle class, went to a grammar school, he'd still be as successful as he is now.

Not in rap, but in another field.

Speaker A: 01:16:54

I don't know.

Like he's one of those people, isn't it?

He seems like it's just in him.

Yeah, because like the thing about like not doing things for the money like he.

When they did the reebok deal, yeah, 50 Cent got way less than Jay Z.

But he understood, he had that self awareness, didn't he?

He knew like, I shouldn't be getting the same amount as Jay Z. I'm not, I'm not in that world right now.

What this is going to do, it's going to be a good stepping stone.

When he started working on Power, he was getting, I don't know, 14 grand an episode or something.

Like that but with a producer credit or something.

And then he ended up making a fortune out of it.

It's, it's, yeah.

Speaker B: 01:17:26

Always making decisions with a long term mentality is the way forward, I think.

Speaker A: 01:17:30

Yeah.

And is, is that environmental or is it in.

Yeah, yeah.

You don't know.

Speaker B: 01:17:34

True.

Speaker A: 01:17:35

Big question, Martin.

Speaker B: 01:17:36

Thank you, Adam, man.

No, man, I appreciate you.

Speaker A: 01:17:40

I've learned.

Yeah, thank you.

I will do.

Speaker B: 01:17:43

You are like, it's good to have.

You're a purist.

And I listened to the episode Will Center.

I've listened to the one with Rob Percy.

There's a few I've listened to and Wicked, man.

So keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker A: 01:17:55

Amazing.

Thanks very much.

Speaker B: 01:17:57

Thanks for having me.

Speaker A: 01:17:58

Cheers.

Right, that's a wrap, guys.

Speaker B: 01:18:00

Let's go.

Speaker A: 01:18:01

Boom.

Speaker B: 01:18:01

All right.

Thank you.