Dean Bryce - From Soundsystems and Saturday Jobs to Mercury Prizes and A&R

Adam Gow: 00:00:23

Welcome to the Paths of Rhythm podcast.

Formerly once a dj, today we've got a double Mercury Prize winning A&R director, former global head of music at Boiler Room, and the founder of an independent music venture. Don't sleep. Dean Bryce, how are you doing today?

Dean Bryce: 00:00:39

I'm good, thank you, Adam. Thanks for having me. It's really hot at the moment, but we're here.

Adam Gow: 00:00:44

Yeah, Yeah. I don't know which of us is struggling more. At least I've just got a T shirt on.

Dean Bryce: 00:00:49

Yeah, yeah.

Adam Gow: 00:00:51

Thanks for coming on. I think we connected because I'd sort of seen. Seen some of your projects and things previously, then did a bit of looking into. It was like, oh, wow.

I think there's some kind of different areas that you'll be able to get into than some of the other guests that we've had on. But then we kind of connected, overlooking Eddie or Chairs content. So I was just wondering out of curiosity, do you know Eddie then?

Because you're both in a similar area.

Dean Bryce: 00:01:20

Yeah, in passing. And Eddie shot me for a project, so I did a project for prostate cancer and he shot me for that.

Basically raising awareness for young men in South London. So, yes, Eddie is a cool guy. Don't name too well, but we say hello in the street.

Adam Gow: 00:01:37

Nice, nice. Cool. Okay. Well, yeah, as we always do, is the way that we start off, the format's not going to change with the new name.

I just think it means that we can kind of reach out to a broad variety of people. It's less confusing. I won't have the thing of people going, I'm still a dj, which has happened more times than I would like. So.

Yeah, so it's still a case of. Really. If you just could kind of tell me about where you grew up and what your early musical memories were.

Dean Bryce: 00:02:06

Yeah. So I grew up in southeast London in a place called Catford, So my family are Jamaican, so we've got a really strong musical Jamaican background.

And music was always in the house, like, probably more than TV in a way. My dad loved music. My mum was really into music. So as a household we always had music playing blasting on the stereo.

I remember we grew up in a council house with single pane glass and my dad would play music so loud the glass would vibrate and because of the bass lines. But, you know, it was great growing.

And my dad had thousands of records ranging from obviously reggae, of course soul, then your rhythmics, the bangles, a lot of pop music. He was a real connoisseur.

Adam Gow: 00:02:54

Yeah, it's nice to have that kind of variation, isn't it? What was it like for record shop culture around there?

Dean Bryce: 00:03:01

So we will. He didn't really buy records, as far as I know, in the local area.

We would take trips to Brixton, where I live now, and a shop called Red Records was on the high street. It's moved now. It just got reopened a couple of years ago, but it was shut for many years. So Red Records was my favorite shop with my dad to go to.

And they sold a lot of reggae and Seoul. They were right on the high street by the tube station. And I loved going there and that also made me love Brixton.

So the reason why I live in Brixton now, because I love the vibrancy of the area. All start because of Red Records?

Adam Gow: 00:03:36

Yeah, because it's an area that. Was it quite a rough place in the 80s?

Dean Bryce: 00:03:40

Yes, it was. It was rough. I had family lived there. It wasn't overtly rough, but it was edgy. It's completely changed now.

You know, I always saw the architecture, the big houses and stuff, so. And they were bigger than the houses in Catford where I grew up. So, yes, it was rough to a degree, but there was.

Was full of culture and I love that they had choice of M radio station behind the record shop. There were parties everywhere. It just felt like a part of London that was really alive.

Adam Gow: 00:04:13

Yeah, I lived down in London for a bit, but I lived in East Finchley. And like, you talk to people that go, where'd you live? He's finished. They go, really? Because there's just like nothing going on there.

There's a good record shot, but other than that there's nothing. But, you know, it's interesting. You get off the tr. Off the tube in Brixton and there's just an energy, isn't there?

Dean Bryce: 00:04:33

It's madness. Get out the tube. You smell the incense from the street sellers.

There's usually a person performing music, whether it's an old guy singing dance or cover bands. It's just out the tube. It's intense, but I love it.

Adam Gow: 00:04:47

Yeah, yeah. Did your. Did your. Was your dad involved in music then?

Dean Bryce: 00:04:53

Yeah, so he was a dj. I've got a few of his records here, actually. So around the age of 16, he started a sound system called Observer.

So I guess that was, you know, in vogue in the 70s when you're a young guy to start up your own sound system. So he had that with his friends. He was also very close with a crew called Saxon. Now Saxon Sound are really a Pioneering sound system from the uk.

They inspired a lot of musicians from the us. They inspired Wycliffe Jean from the Fugees. LL Cool J was inspired. Busta Rhymes got inspired by those guys.

So we would spend a lot of weekends at Saxon Studio in Broccoli, which is another part of southeast London in Lucian Borough.

So I'd be there a lot as a kid, bored out of my mind, because I'm hearing them make records in real time and I want to go home and watch cartoons or whatever. But looking. Looking back now, it was so exciting because there were guitars there, drum machines, keyboards. Really, really exciting time.

I borrowed a drum machine from them, I think was Ocasio drum machine for a couple of days and had it in the family house when I was around, like, 10, 11. But, yeah, he was really involved with those guys that they were like family to me.

Adam Gow: 00:06:12

Right. Was the.

Because when I had Hype on here, he was talking about having a sound system and stuff, and he was talking about the blues parties in East London. Would.

Would the sound systems in that sort of the reggae subculture, were they quite localized within the different boroughs, or would they all travel around the city?

Dean Bryce: 00:06:30

They would travel. So Saxon became Saxon International, and they would do clashes in New York City, all over the place. And they would travel via tapes, cassette tapes.

And Wycliffe Jean, he said in an interview in Days magazine that he actually learned English. He grew up in Haiti. English from a Saxon sound tape, because he thought they were American.

So these tapes would go via cousins and friends and get copied and dubbed over, like, dozens of times, and eventually lands in Haiti. He's now playing a sound clash, thinking it's really cool.

He then leaves the us, leaves Haiti, moves to the US with a slight cockney British accent, thinking that's how people spoke in the us. And apparently, the story goes, he was in school going, like, all right, mate? And they were like, you sound weird. What is this?

Because he thought they were American, but no, it travels from the diaspora, from the UK and abroad. So Saxon were all over the place. They would win clutches in New York City, in. In Jamaica, in Harleston.

But they were really proudly South London, but international.

Adam Gow: 00:07:35

Yeah. So with the sound Clash, this might sound a bit of a weird question. How much of it's about.

Is it system versus system, or is it purely about music selection?

Dean Bryce: 00:07:48

It's both. Right, you want the. The most pristine, clearest, deepest bass system, loudest you can get as possible. Because back then you'd bring your own rigs.

It wasn't like A Red Bull sound Clash. No Shade to Red Bull. But it wasn't done of a PA system.

Every sound would bring their own speakers, their own amplifiers, their own turntables, and you almost do like a boxing match, like other sides of the. Of the hall or next to each other. So it's really about tunes that are exclusive on dub plates. And the sounds that's really powered.

You go back to Jamaica Fascist in Jamaica with King Tubby and those guys, and they would hang speakers, tweeters in trees and apparently you could hear the sound for miles. So it's a bit of both. It's like the best songs that are exclusive, but also the power of the sound system.

Adam Gow: 00:08:40

Yeah, yeah. So what, so was Saxon, then? Were they shipping their sound system or did they have, like, local chapters?

Dean Bryce: 00:08:48

You know what, I'm not sure if they shipped them abroad. They must have, really, because I have to ask Dennis, who. Who's the manager and founder of Saxon. He's like a mentor to me.

I'll have to ask him how they did it in the us. But I know that everyone built their stuff by hand.

You know, apparently when you had a house that were boarded up back in the day, they would take those boards off the houses and build speakers.

Adam Gow: 00:09:11

Right. It's really resourceful, isn't it, really?

Dean Bryce: 00:09:15

That DIY culture really made me understand music in a way. That was my first experience of the industry. It was pirate radio, it was owning your own record label, it was diy.

And I think that's why I kind of have my own business. And I'm very much into the independent culture of the business, because that's what I saw growing up.

It's self empowering, it's resourceful and it's just exciting.

Adam Gow: 00:09:39

Yeah, yeah.

So at what point did you start, if you were a teenager, going and sort of hanging around there, at what point did you start kind of trying to find your own lane musically through Saxon?

Dean Bryce: 00:09:52

I was younger than a teenager. I was a real kid. Like, right, right, sorry. Going there super young. Hence why I get bored in the studios and, like, I need to get out of it.

I recorded backing vocals on a track site when I was like five or something, or six.

Adam Gow: 00:10:04

Wow.

Dean Bryce: 00:10:05

And I got ten pounds for that, which I loved. No publishing, though. So in my. Like, we would go to a lot of parties and there was a club called. What's that club called?

The club in Deptford, South London. And it was called. Oh, was it called Moonshine? Moonshot. Moonshot in Deptford. And Saxon would play a lot of Their early dances there.

And Joshua played there earlier on as well. So my first parties were going out with my parents. And even though they were clubs for me, it didn't feel like a club.

It didn't feel like my first experience. But I'd go out with my family in my late. Sorry, in my early teens. But my first experience at club clubs on my own was at my friend's birthday.

It was a jungle party. My friend Eli, he probably turned 16, which is still underage. I was probably 13, went to Peckham, a club called Lazerdrome in Peckham.

The night was called Jungle Magic. I was really uncomfortable going because I was worried because my mum was like, oh my God, he's going to a club. And I was like, it'll be all right.

Me and my older sister, they had a chill out room when there. It was incredible. I remember seeing DJ Ron, a DJ had his name in lights. And I can't forget that I knew nothing about jungle at all.

I didn't really play on pirate radio. But after that night it all changed for me.

Adam Gow: 00:11:34

So was jungle your first big sort of love then?

Dean Bryce: 00:11:38

s,: 1992

But it was still played at home by my dad. He. He bought the CDs, Raga Raga, Volume 1 or whatever. So I loved it. But it was still his genre. We played shabbaranks, all those guys.

He pulled it on vinyl from Jamaica, but it was still my dad's records. Jungle felt like rebellious.

It was really British and it felt like it was mine, you know, even though I wasn't buying the records then I was playing radio and taping off the radio. But it felt like my own genre. So that was the first genre that I got into and was like, wow, this is for me.

Adam Gow: 00:12:29

So was that kind of just after. It was kind of like forming its own identity away from the breakbeat hardcore.

Dean Bryce: 00:12:36

Exactly. That was probably at 94, 95. Like still being in school with your mates going and buying tape packs from record shops. That was that time.

Adam Gow: 00:12:47

Yeah. And the things with stuff like that.

Because even with the tape packs, I, you know, you'd get the happy hardcore packs when they were still splitting the bill. And I don't. The jungle tapes always be my favorite.

But even like with the happy hardcore ones and stuff, there was still really funky Loads of break beats involved and stuff at that.

Dean Bryce: 00:13:04

They were. My sister loved hardcore actually she got into hardcore, which is a little bit kind of before me.

She got into jungle as well and I kind of followed her path, but musically I wasn't taking her recommendations. I just. She was like a pathway to me into the genre.

Adam Gow: 00:13:21

So at what point did you start thinking about DJing?

Dean Bryce: 00:13:25

So I started thinking about DJing when I started buying vinyl. But I. I first off didn't really start buying jungle records, I started buying garage records and that was about 96, so 96, 97 garage then. So it's.

It's UK and US, right? But then it was house and garage. It wasn't even called garage, it was like house and Gary.

So there were U S Harris house records or garage records involved in that.

So I started going to shops like Black Market Records in Soho, there was Bluebird in Bromley and even, even HMV was selling a single here and a single there. So I started buying garage records.

Not really thinking about DJing, but just thinking about it's the only format the records are on, you know, there wasn't really a big CD market back then, so if you want to get a song, you've got to buy on record. There were no MP3s, you know, no ipods. So it's either buy or you don't buy it.

Adam Gow: 00:14:26

See, this is where I think like from.

From the research that I've got, it just looks like you were kind of around and do correct me if I'm wrong, just around these times when genres split and started and stuff.

Because, like, yeah, for me, like I'm going back with like, I listened to a bit of mainstream house when like probably in that era or maybe slightly later, but going back and having a dig around it now, I feel like it's something I've missed a lot on. And with the garage stuff, for me it's like, where does house stopping garage start? And then where does it develop into?

You know, in the uk, Interspeed garage and UK garage. And then from there, you know, I.

Dean Bryce: 00:15:03

Think in the early garage days there were so many US records that we wouldn't even know they were US records. A lot of early Kerry Chandler a lot of things on Nervous records on Strictly Rhythm became garage anthems.

And as only as I got older and started buying the vinyl, I realized these are US garage or house records that really inspired the UK scene.

Adam Gow: 00:15:24

Yeah.

Dean Bryce: 00:15:25

When I was going to clubs though, garage began in Room two of Jungle Nights, it was still the other emerging scene. It was still a jungle was still running things.

But people kind of flocked to garage or house and garage as it was then, because all the girls were in the garage room. It was. It wasn't as aggressive as the jungle rooms, which were wild. They were. They were crazy. And jungle was getting more and more aggressive.

Garage became a counterpoint to that, which was more soulful, more dancing and more about the spirit and the energy of the music.

Adam Gow: 00:15:59

Yeah, because that's a weird time, isn't it? Is it? When the drugs changed at the garage rooms, jungle rooms got a bit more aggressive.

Dean Bryce: 00:16:06

Yeah, I think, you know, I think garage got aggressive going to Lazerdrome, that club in Peckham that I went to. People were saying, oh, be careful there, you're going to get stabbed. Because it was Peckham. It was a 90s, it was a jungle rave.

I'm clearly underage going there. I'm like 13, 14 going underage. I felt pretty safe. I felt safe. I was with a big crew of friends.

But you would hear stories that it's dangerous, you know, but jungle, the music wasn't dangerous. It wasn't the scene. It just became drug influenced to a degree and a bit aggie.

Adam Gow: 00:16:42

Yeah, yeah.

Dean Bryce: 00:16:44

Whereas garage was. Garage was just soulful.

Adam Gow: 00:16:48

So from there, then, when. When did you start to think about DJing?

Dean Bryce: 00:16:54

So I started thinking, well, everyone had friends, everyone had a crew with decks. Decks were so expensive when you're 15, like, they were. No one could really afford them, but there was always somebody in the crew with decks.

So when I accumulated around, I don't know, like 10, 15 records, I was like, right, I can do a mix now, am I right? I can, I can do this.

Adam Gow: 00:17:16

Yeah.

Dean Bryce: 00:17:16

And a friend of mine had decks and they were like unbranded. I don't know what they were. They were unbranded.

They were essentially a big bit of wood with two platters on there, no pitch control and a crossfader. And we'd mix at Ace House. Clearly there were mixes going off because we couldn't get the mix on time. Using our fingers to spin round.

Adam Gow: 00:17:43

Yeah.

Dean Bryce: 00:17:43

And it was okay to practice, but it was belt drive, so it was very weak on the torque. See, the pitch was that. There was no pitch. So good practice, but bad in principle.

Then we had friends with sound labs and one mate of mine had a pair of Technics and I was there every weekend at his house, that she bag of records, which are really heavy to carry across South London, going to his. His house, his family house and mixing all day. So probably around the age of, of 16 I, my first DJ gigs I didn't own decks.

I would play at friends houses and practice and then play in bars. So I learned to really absorb and memorize what I learned in friends houses than do it out in public.

Adam Gow: 00:18:31

Yeah, it's like at the moment I'm doing a few, a few gigs at a local, just at a local bar and it's like I've been splitting the time with a mate but this time I'm doing the four hours myself so that brilliant. I get to practice for four hours.

Dean Bryce: 00:18:46

Right, right.

Adam Gow: 00:18:47

You know, because I just, I don't put the time into it at home. I don't really have the time but then it's like right if I go and do that I, I can properly practice because I just, I've never practiced enough.

Dean Bryce: 00:18:56

Yeah, same.

Adam Gow: 00:18:57

But it's like, I think, I think with, with DJing like I had Dan Greenpeace on here and he was saying like all his practice was just playing on pirate radio. That's where his time came in because I think I, so I, I was probably at a similar age to you, similar type, type of. I'd not got the.

I've not been out in the real world clubbing or anything. My mate had a few garage, you know like yeah, gunman and things like that. The obvious ones but probably the same or very similar all in one.

Some sort of 70s disco decks. No pitch control and we, we'd try and mix things and stuff but I would have never known from there how to parlay that into getting any sort of DJ in.

So what did that bit of it look like for?

Dean Bryce: 00:19:44

You see I wasn't really like trying to be a club dj. I wanted to be on pirate radio really because I thought that was the goal being on pirate radio. That was touchable. They were seeable.

We had friends who were on the Pirates. I never really thought about playing in clubs until I started going to more and more clubs and I was seeing beyond the pirate radio horizon.

But yeah, in fact I would I do a few shows on park radio. I was never a resident. My favorite station was Up Front fm. I would play it all day long on the weekends. But I wasn't really trying to dj.

I didn't we know how to even, even start a DJ career in clubs. I didn't know how to, I didn't know anybody who promoted nights. I was a kid at school, I didn't know anybody that owned any clubs.

All the clubs locally in my area were for older people and they weren't playing garage. All the garage clubs were in. In Soho and the West End. There were none really local at that point when I was growing up.

So it was just really about having fun with friends, which is. Which I like. It wasn't about I want to be a superstar dj. It was playing at house parties.

Because there were loads of house parties back then, I guess because there weren't so many clubs for young people, house parties, youth centers and pirate radio.

Adam Gow: 00:22:22

Was pirate radio like a useful sort of stepping stone to other things?

Dean Bryce: 00:22:29

Pirate radio was as important then as social media is for anybody else. It was how you became visible, it was how you would talk to friends via shout outs and stuff. It was what you play in the.

In the journey, in the car to an event. It was where you heard your new discovery of records.

I would go to bed actually with a tape, a blank tape in my tape deck, ready for recording a song at any moment or just sitting there. So me part radio was the Internet. It was our way of hearing new records, of just hearing DJs who played on radio, then hearing them in clubs.

It was so important. It was basically, it was. The goal was to get on pirate radio more than anything else.

It was the dream of any young, any young DJ growing up in the 90s.

Adam Gow: 00:23:17

So from there then, how long is it? Because like DJ is just one part of your career, isn't it?

Yeah, like there's quite a few different things that, that have gone on and I'm not entirely sure on what the timelines were. Because you went to work, you got a job at Ninja Tune, didn't you?

Dean Bryce: 00:23:36

I did. So I'll give you the history of that actually, because it's a kind of a winding road story.

So, yeah, my first ever job was working in Deptford market. Deptford in southeast London. And I got a job on the market every Saturday with the aim of buying records because I wanted to buy records.

So I'll get paid 20 or 25 quid after a shift and then after that I would run to the record store to try and catch it before they closed. I was there in the market for maybe. Was there 14 actually or 15 there for like two years, I think.

I made it to the record stop after work twice in or maybe three times in those two years. But I'd always try. I'd always try every weekend, try and get there and it will close. Made it a couple times.

So I was doing that to really buy records and friend me, my mate at the time would buy records in Croydon at big Apple, like every Friday. So I worked there. Then after a while I got bored of being out in the cold, you know, in the market. It wasn't really good all season round.

So I got a job in the Gap, and the Gap, I worked there in Oxford Circus. So a. I was earning more money. And then I was bang in the middle of Soho by all the record stores.

So next to black market Uptown Records, release the Groove, which was amazing for me because my lunch break, I would go in there and buy records and it was. Was better than Lucium. It's better than buying songs in Lucium in my local market. It was. There was way more selection, it felt more upfront.

I'd meet DJs who played in clubs, like Tough Jam would go there and I'm like, this is incredible. I'm seeing my heroes. Like, this is way better than Lucian. So then my goal was to try and get a job in a record store.

I was like, I want to work in one of these shops, these independent shops. That's my thing. I ended up getting a job in hmv, the big HMV on Oxford Circus, which is now closed down.

So I worked on the singles department, sold a vinyl, which I loved. And then I was buying records. Like every shift I would buy a bunch of records because it was literally my thing. So at.

At the Gap, I met a DJ who was a mentor of mine. He played house records. I was only buying garage, only garage.

And he kind of broadened my horizon to go beyond the US garage and the UK kind of garage records and get into like more masters at work. And I was like, this is incredible. So I got with him, he's called Alvin, he's playing out now, he's called Expressions.

An incredible dj, I'll go to his house in practice. And he got me to really broaden my horizons and don't always buy two step or speed garage, but there are other genres which are just as impactful.

And I started like buying Todd Terry, Kerry Chandler. And I was like, this is all incredible stuff. And so then I worked in hmv. As I mentioned before, I met a guy at the counter, hmv.

And it was a. I was a Sunday, I was very bored. He came to me, he was buying MJ Cole. As everyone knows, MJ Cole was a garage producer.

I was really enthused about him buying MJ Cole and saying he's great. And he told me he managed him and I was like, what? He said, yeah, I manage MJ Cole. So he gave me his phone number this time. I Was doing my A levels.

So I was about 17, gave me his phone number, I did my levels. Months go by and I'm like, oh, yeah, that guy. I want to call that guy about the records.

I wanted to go and see him, get some free records, go home, called him. I ended up going to his office near the Old Kent Road. So I go and see him. The minute I see him, he goes, dean, we've got to go to a meeting.

I was like, what? We gotta go. Where? To a label. So I'm like, all right. So we leave, go to a label, go to Talking Loud, which is owned by Giles Peterson.

So I'm now sitting there in a marketing meeting with the manager. I'm. I'm 18 years old. I have no idea about record labels, what's going on.

I'm sitting in the marketing meeting and they are trying to get the MJ Cole album for coming album Sincere eligible for the Mercury Music Prize. Trying to think about ways of doing it. But the album cut off date, the. The price cut off date was after the album was released.

And they were thinking about, how do we do it? How do we do it? Me, with my retail background, I had an idea of releasing the import version earlier.

Because back then you did the import version and the domestic version.

Adam Gow: 00:28:01

Right.

Dean Bryce: 00:28:02

And he liked my idea. He's like, great. Ended up giving me a job. So I was then working part time with the manager who managed MJ Cole and Roots Manuva.

My dream was to be a lawyer, a criminal lawyer. I love music, but it wasn't my dream. I was like, let me work in law, not music. That's my thing.

He was a lawyer turned manager and he became a mentor of mine. We're still friends to this day. We spoke yesterday. He's a really cool guy.

So I found myself working in the music business then, which led to other jobs like Ninja Tune, Boiler Room, BMG Records and doing a lot of other stuff.

Adam Gow: 00:28:40

So you must have been pretty good academically if you. If you had aspirations to be a lawyer, then.

Dean Bryce: 00:28:45

Yeah, I was. I was okay, you know. Yeah, I was fine, you know, it was. It was. It was, yeah. I loved school, to be honest. I really like being at school. I was pretty.

I was a good kid. I had naughty friends, but I was. I was a good kid.

Adam Gow: 00:29:04

So what was it like then, having had that idea for MJ Cole and then that happens. Did it. Did he win the prize?

Dean Bryce: 00:29:13

He didn't win the prize, no.

Adam Gow: 00:29:14

But he blew massive, right?

Dean Bryce: 00:29:17

Yeah, the album was great. He won a MOBO award when it Came out, which is great. That's my first time going to the Mobos. It was great because I was a huge fan of MJ Cole.

Right. And it was good to go and peek behind the curtain and see his studio, how things are made, but also understand the business.

And as much as I'm a fan of music, I love music. I also really admire the business side, as in, not the way how it's shaped. And it can be explosive.

But I love helping artists see the business, understand the business, and overcome any challenges. I really thrive on helping people really see their vision. So management, for me, was, like, the ideal thing, because that's what you do.

You work with an artist and you help them navigate the industry and help them magnify and amplify their vision.

Adam Gow: 00:30:11

Yeah, yeah. So did you have much to do with then Roots Manuva? Because, again, with Roots Manuva, his album was massive as well. Wasn't it really?

Dean Bryce: 00:30:20

Yes.

So the guy's called Juice J-U-I-C-E. Juice showed me the first album, Brand New Second Handd, which I actually bought the vinyl after meeting him just to kind of even I could have got it free. I bought it to get into, you know, roots Maneuver. And then I remember going to Roots Manuvas. Flat. He had a flat in.

I think it was somewhere near Elephant. He had a flat, and Elephant lived with his brother. And there was, like, an award plaque on the wall for a record he did with Left Field.

But he was still living at home in a Mac computer, a Big Mac in the living room on, like, a coffee table. And then we heard Witness on cassette for the first time. And I was like, damn, this is great. So that was before he put the album out. Run.

Come Save Me. I heard the demo, Witness the Fitness, and I was like, this is incredible.

So it's those stories, experiences that I really, you know, treasure, because hearing a national treasure of a record, a gem of a record in its demo form on cassette from the artist himself in their. In their flat before they made loads of money, was a real thing for me.

So I was involved as much as I was the assistant I was running around assisting, But I was really learning.

Adam Gow: 00:31:43

Yeah, it must be weird, like, hearing that song for that, because it's still massive.

Dean Bryce: 00:31:47

Yeah.

Adam Gow: 00:31:48

You know, it's. Anything from that sort of era, I think it's.

There's nothing that I can think of that touches it in terms of, like, how timeless and Keep that fresh it still sounds.

Dean Bryce: 00:32:00

It feels like those records that you heard from the demo. So, like, M.J. cole, crazy love. I'm like, on the video shoot for that.

When you've been so close to the artists and part of the management team, you kind of feel like they're your records. Right. So whenever I hear songs from Sincere in a shop or on TV or Rich Maneuver in a car going by, I always turn my head and be like, oh, it's still.

It's still active. It's still got a place in history. And you feel really proud that you were involved in some little part in these timeless records.

Adam Gow: 00:32:37

Yeah, yeah. Were you on the video shoot?

Dean Bryce: 00:32:42

So for what track?

Adam Gow: 00:32:43

For A Witness.

Dean Bryce: 00:32:44

No, Witness. I wasn't. But I know all about. Obviously, it's a great video. That wasn't even Rodney's real school, by the way. Like it says.

Yeah, it wasn't really his school, but it was great because it. The reactions are real. The kids who are shouting, cheetah. It's real.

The teachers who were saying, who are looking strange at Rodney, that's their real reaction. They knew it was a video, but no one expected him to act that way. So it's a brilliant, timeless video.

Adam Gow: 00:33:13

Yeah, it's absolutely incredible. So what came next after that role?

Dean Bryce: 00:33:19

So after working in management, it was, like, so exciting. I did it from A levels. Well, actually, I did a college A levels after that. So A levels to.

Adam Gow: 00:33:30

Did you have to pinch yourself that you were doing it whilst you were that young? Like, getting exposed to that?

Dean Bryce: 00:33:37

No, not really. Because Juice was so cool. He made me feel right at home. He was an educator. I love learning. So he would tell me, like, books to read.

He would quiz me on the spot about how do artists earn a living. And I was like, okay, through, you know, recording, publishing, live merchandise, mechanicals, all these things that we know now.

I was 19 and learning the fundamentals of the business. And as a manager in management, you learn the entire business, right? So you learn records, publishing, learn it all. Rather than.

If I worked at a label, I would only know that particular part of the industry. But no, I wasn't pinching myself. I was just really proud, you know, And I did a hard. I worked hard, I did a good job.

I wasn't letting the fact that I was working with my heroes stop me from doing a good job. I wanted to be the best now. I wanted to, like, really be there.

And it's funny because MJ Cole at the time had a show on Kiss, and those days he'd get a lot of promos on vinyl and he. He couldn't play them all. So my job to go to his studio and set up the.

Get the decks ready, whatever, and go through all the promos and create three piles. So I would do a great part. Record play on your show. These records aren't so good and these here are really interesting.

I'm not sure what they are, but they're interesting.

And one that was interesting, I wasn't sure about it was the Streets, as it come to this, that came on a white label and I was like, yeah, it's kind of garagey, but it's like spoken word. It's kind of weird. But play on the show. It's kind of like a weird thing.

So Matt would play a lot of the songs he'd play on on his kids show were basically my selections that he would whittle down that I was like, that's great, that's not good, don't worry about that. So I was kind of becoming a curator and I was loving it. So I wasn't. I wasn't too gassed about being in that role.

Adam Gow: 00:35:42

So. Yeah. So what came next after that then?

Dean Bryce: 00:35:45

So after. After working with Juice, I then graduated from university and I did. I got a job at BMG Records when they were a major label.

So I was the marketing system in the UK at the time Outcast released Hey Yarn, Elijah Keys was doing her thing. Usher was Confessions, Faithless came back with their new album. So I was a market assistant in the UK at BMG in the urban and dance division.

Adam Gow: 00:36:16

How was that then? Was. Was it very different having to go like, were you like a Choose prepped you for being in such like a massive multinational?

Dean Bryce: 00:36:28

Yeah, because I was always. We were always going to labels anyway. So I was always going to Mercury Talking Loud, which is part of Universal for mj.

I was going there loads, seeing Giles Peterson, seeing Paul Martin, who was the A R guy there being a meeting. So I was always used to being at labels, I think talking about. They were very cool. They were a real cool label. I love going there.

BMG was just like big. It was everything. So I was prepped, I was ready. It was. It was kind of. It was less UK focused. You know, they're looking at the big US records.

They are. I remember my boss at the time telling me that although we wear jeans and.

think I came. I was there in: 2000

And then I remember it being the end or the kind of the last days of the big money era back then, before streaming. So the labels still had loads of money, but I could see it kind of people getting a bit scared about piracy.

But it was like the last of the big money days before streaming, when people.

Adam Gow: 00:37:49

When artists were getting like crazy advances and crazy video budgets and stuff.

Dean Bryce: 00:37:54

Oh, crazy. Like label spending like money on ridiculous things. Like we. Well, OutKast had an event on the album afterwards on London Eye.

They hide out the whole London Eye and a boat for an Outcast party. The budget they had crazy budgets for. For things that are interesting but they probably wouldn't do.

Adam Gow: 00:38:14

Now, were you. Did you stick around whilst things fell off then, or did you kind of see it coming and get out? No.

Dean Bryce: 00:38:23

So I think towards the end there was a merger with Sony and BMG became Sony bmg. So in the merger there were lots of layoff. My boss left and. And there were roles out no longer existed anymore. So a lot of people just left.

And it wasn't the same bmg. It was Sony bmg. It was a new company, it was a new era.

Adam Gow: 00:38:44

Yeah. I've been at a couple of jobs where you've had takeovers and stuff and it's always just a bit weird.

Dean Bryce: 00:38:51

Yes.

But even though, like, we had friends, I had friends at Sony, so it was great to still be with friends, you know, there was the BMG lot, the Sony lot that came together. I was all. It was all fun, you know, those guys are still my friends to this day. It's just politics, I guess, in. In the. In the business side of it.

Adam Gow: 00:39:08

Yeah. So was Ninja Tune next?

Dean Bryce: 00:39:12

No, after that was. I was involved in sync. Sync. So it's my first time doing sync. I didn't know. I knew what it was because obviously I was.

I was taught by choose what sync was and how artists can earn money through a small boutique Sync agency called i10Q, which was short for I. Thank you, I'd have found out. And basically we were putting songs in computer games, TV ads and films.

The biggest ad that I worked on was the Cadbury's Gorilla with Phil Collins. Yeah, the one, yeah. So it's just a very iconic commercial. My boss was away on maternity leave, so it was just me in the office.

We got a call from the agency. It was either Fallon or bbh. Some big agency rang and they're like, we've got this advert. He's want to go and clear the rights for the music usage.

Can you do it? I'M like, sure. So I was the music supervision, the music kind of clearance guy on that. On that commercial.

Then I realized, you know, it was blowing up. It was a crazy advert. But, yes, that was through us.

I didn't find the music that came from the director, but I was involved in making sure it happened.

Adam Gow: 00:40:17

Did you ever get to do the finding the music part?

Dean Bryce: 00:40:20

Oh, yeah, of course. We did it in films. We did it for other adverts. But on that particular advert, they already had four Colins in mind for that advert. So.

Adam Gow: 00:40:30

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's. Yeah, that was iconic.

Dean Bryce: 00:40:36

Yeah. So it was our job to ensure that, you know, they could afford it and it was in budget, you know, and they could afford it and it looked really right.

Adam Gow: 00:40:44

Yeah, it's. I remember I was working at an agency and we were using some music from someone. I feel like a right dickhead, to be honest.

Our creative director decided he wanted to use this certain music, but then get it remade.

Dean Bryce: 00:41:01

Yeah.

Adam Gow: 00:41:01

So I remember we. We negotiated probably quite a low fee with the artist to take the music.

And I remember talking to someone who works more in sync and stuff, I was a lot closer to, and I said, oh, yeah, we've managed to get this deal. And they were just like, yeah, that's pretty low, to be honest. That's not a lot for the artist.

And then I thought I'd not thought about it like that because when I was in somewhere, my head is just like, all right, yeah, let's get a good deal.

Dean Bryce: 00:41:27

Yeah.

Adam Gow: 00:41:28

And, oh, yeah, yeah, it's tricky. And then we tried to negotiate a buyout and they were pushing for more, and I was like, we just can't get you that.

But then I think when they realized that their song had been remade in quite a different way and stuff, they. They kind of understood the context. But it's. It's really tricky with stuff like that, isn't it?

Like, I just wasn't thinking about, is this fair for all parties? I'm just thinking I'm trying to impress my boss.

Dean Bryce: 00:41:53

That was our job. When you're a sync agency, you want to make sure that it's fair.

Normally you use the term most favored nations mfn, which usually means that both sides get the same fairness on a deal. So, for instance, if one party has an upside in term or money, your fee will go up as well. So it matches.

So MFN is what you normally would fight for in deals.

Adam Gow: 00:42:16

Right. Nice.

Dean Bryce: 00:42:17

Also, a lot of people forget that, you know, when you've got a Sync on tv, you are getting money on the PRS side on performances, so you're still getting paid. And sometimes if you've got an advert, a song on the advert and it's played a lot, your performance royalty can outweigh your sync fee.

So, you know, and that's all. That's all yours. That's not going to the label or the publisher. That's going to you as the writer. You know, the PRS money is going directly to you.

So it's. There's. There are different avenues of looking at sync and how it's beneficial.

It might be a low fee, but it might run for a year and it might double because of the PRs.

Adam Gow: 00:42:55

Right? Yeah, yeah. I don't. We never did TVC on that one, unfortunately, but it was all just social.

So when you came out of that, was it from there you went to Ninja?

Dean Bryce: 00:44:23

Yeah, Ninja brought. Yeah, they brought me in initially as a sync person because I was doing sync, but then I slowly got into a R. But originally it was sync and people.

I was bringing people through. I was bringing artists through.

So Speech the Bell was an artist that someone at uni gave me a mixtape and I was like, yeah, it's cool, but who's the artist on track three? Who's that? Like, oh, that's Speech. So I met Speech and I was like, okay, you've got to meet Will, who runs Big Data. I think that's the label for you.

Because obviously Big Data put out Rich Maneuver. So I didn't really well. And as I joined Big Data, Tune, I was internal.

So I did Speech with Will, then Will signed her and then we put the record out and then it won the Monkey Prize.

Adam Gow: 00:45:13

How did that feel?

Dean Bryce: 00:45:15

Oh, great. Great. It was Ninja's first ever Mercury Prize.

And you probably tell watching the video, this video somewhere, maybe it's online somewhere, of the entire staff going crazy and jumping on the table. Literally jumping on the table physically. At the award show, we weren't as cool as the other labels. We were. We were so excited.

So that felt like a real moment for us, you know, and there were a lot of learnings for the label as well, having a Mercury Prize winner, because there are things that you've got to do in place when you've got artists who are up for that, such as book adverts, that kind of thing.

Adam Gow: 00:45:52

Yeah, I suppose it must be an interesting one because it's a label with so much history and I'm. I'm guessing it's sort of like kind of peaked and dipped a bit over the years.

So did, did you have a remit there to do a specific thing with the label and certain artists?

Dean Bryce: 00:46:12

I think when I joined Ninja, right, I loved the DIY energy, I loved Coldcut and I liked the Story. What I wasn't really feeling was the, the, the roster, really. I was like, I was raised on pirate radio and the roster didn't reflect my tastes.

Like I wouldn't go to record store and buy a Ninja artist. It didn't resonate with me at all. So I remember when it was. It was the anniversary, the 20th anniversary, I believe.

And some of the people internally who were a nos were struggling to get certain remixes done and whatever. And I was like, okay, I'm, I'm going in, I'm going in and I'm making Ninja Tune, the label that I would buy records from.

So essentially I think I was one of the forces that changed it from, I guess a boutique indie, where they were putting out kind of cute records, like middle class kids who loved that sound, to just like records that were edgier. So I was like, I'm going to sign some stuff that I want to buy. So I signed.

A good signing was 40 DL, who was really having a moment then, doing really exciting things. And then it was Peggy Goo, then it was actress. It was really artists that were shaping culture rather than following culture.

Adam Gow: 00:47:44

Yeah, yeah. So we kind of bringing it a bit more to the sounds that were going on in the streets at the time.

Dean Bryce: 00:47:52

Absolutely. It was just like, you know, we would. It was the sounds of London then. And then that particular moment, there was a real golden era of music.

You know, there was Joy Orbison, Mount Kimby, there were all these really exciting artists, actress, Zombie in the uk, so there was enough artists for all labels to go and sign. But I wanted Ninja Tune to be part of that narrative and not really be old hat, you know, old school, doing trip hop.

They should be part of the narrative of established artists doing really exciting things in music. And that was my remit that I self imposed to make them cool again, I guess.

Adam Gow: 00:48:32

Yeah.

Because I suppose in that time that you've had trip hop sort of running along, you've had garage and grime and even dubstep happening and stuff, which is so lively, mate. I don't know if that's the right phrase for it. Do you know what I mean? I guess like you said, don't get.

Dean Bryce: 00:48:50

Me wrong though, because there were edgy artists. Big Dada, the hip hop label was still doing edgy things. They'd put out Wiley's, I think, second album, which is. Which is really strong, but.

But it wasn't consistent. And across Ninja Tune, the Mother label, it wasn't that energy. It was still a bit. A bit. It wasn't edgy enough.

So I think, you know, I was like, let's make it edgy and exciting.

Adam Gow: 00:49:19

So. And you mentioned Peggy there as well. Yeah, Peggy's obviously gone on to be absolutely huge.

And I think you sometimes get misquoted, don't you, as having discovered her.

Dean Bryce: 00:49:29

Yeah, no, didn't discover Peggy. She put out one or two records on a white label before them. I found her on SoundCloud. She did someone. SoundCloud, which I loved.

So before I knew about anything, I was browsing SoundCloud. She put out a thing on records and I think a white label, one Bonnie Car, but nothing on a bigger label.

So I guess I was, you know, their established independent label. So I DM'd her on SoundCloud. Just send her a DM. Got back to me within two days and she was. Happened to be playing a show in London.

She was living in Berlin at the time. So we met at Manger in Old street for literally a coffee. And she was asking me, like, what's an advance? What does this mean?

I was like, well, advance is. But we did, like, literally the basics of the business and then we decided to go and do an EP together. It was really quick. She was a professional.

Got the tracks back within the month. All amazing records. Made the artwork and put it out.

Adam Gow: 00:50:31

And the rest is history.

Dean Bryce: 00:50:32

Yeah, she was good. You picked up. Peggy Wright is really driven. Like, I've not really met anybody with that kind of drive before. She wants it. She wants it a lot.

And then I thought, oh, my God, she's huge. She had like 30,000 followers on Instagram. I was like, she's huge. She's now got like 5 million or something. Yeah, but she really wanted it.

And we speak a lot. We would talk a lot about the aesthetic of the record, the sounds. She's really particular and wants it done correctly.

Adam Gow: 00:51:05

Something else that I was reading about is your kind of your view on how important the soft skills are with A and R in. Can you give any sort of examples of that? And. And is there, like, certain.

Like, are you quite quick at just sussing someone out when you first meet them as to what their kind of personality and how. How they need to be handled?

Dean Bryce: 00:51:33

A&R is all soft skills, basically. I always tell our young A&Rs that don't sleep, that the most important skill to have as an ANR is people skills.

More than anything, it doesn't matter how good you think your ears are. If you're unlikable or can't deal with people, you can't be an anr. I, I like people. I'm a people person.

I'm always thinking about people and, you know, how we can help them the most. And I think that's helped by my degree.

I did a degree in psychology and it's, it's not about trying to like trick people or manipulate them to start helping them. So as an A and R, the biggest, like as an A, sometimes you might be in their houses if they've got home studio.

So you really got to be, you know, in the home studio helping them get to their goal.

And the first skill I normally ask an artist is what your goals, what you want to do, you know, so it's our role to help them get from point A to point B. And that's not by having good ears. Ears are important, but it's really about listening and trying to advance them any way you can.

Adam Gow: 00:52:45

I think there's like, there's knowing how because I used, I was. When I was working in agency world, I was project manager and I was kind of.

I'm not the, I'm not the most organized project manager by any stretch of the imagination. But I think it was soft skills that got me through it. And sometimes I got it wrong as well, of course.

And like, I think sometimes it's knowing how you've got some people where you just like, right, you, you need to get this thing done by then. All right. Yeah, leave me to it. And then you get the other people where it's like, they need a granular plan. Some people need the pressure.

Some people need to not have pressure and then they'll overperform. Some people seem to be problem first. Like, I've noticed it quite a bit with designers.

You'll ask them to do something and they're just looking at what the problems are and you kind of like, it'll be okay, just, just see where you get to.

Dean Bryce: 00:53:35

Yeah.

Adam Gow: 00:53:36

And then most of the time they'll do something way better. The problems didn't exist and they've just like, they've gone above and beyond if you just give them that space.

Dean Bryce: 00:53:46

Yeah, I agree. I think as a person, I'm solutions based, you know, I want to fix the issue wherever it is.

And everyone's different in terms of a R. There are different artists What I. What I think is true across all artists I work with, there's always an element of insecurity about their art.

And it's not visible when you're a fan because you don't see it. When you're a fan of the artist, you see. You kind of see them and you hear them, you're like, this is great art. When you're.

When you got visibility behind the process, you can see how sometimes they can be unsure of their steps. And it's your role as the a. To really give them confidence to go and take those risks.

You know, to say, that's great, or I wouldn't necessarily do that just yet, you know, to guide them. So it's really about, like, anal is really intense. You're with somebody in the working day, like, a lot, like making an album.

You're talking almost every day for, let's say, like six months every day. You're so close, like, and you're hearing demos, going to the studio, you see them in clubs, dj. You're really a part of the process a lot.

And that's what I love about working with artists is I like to be almost, you know, hands off, but hands on because what you don't want to do is make it your projects.

You want to basically leave no fingerprints on the project, but enough gentle guidance to ensure that the artists and the label both love the work and it's your job also, as nar, People often forget to really make sure everyone in the label is into the album. They're really enthusiastic.

So you're the kind of cheerleader for the artist in the office and you're the label spokesperson for the artist in the studio. It's really a role of being a real people person, but getting a job done, it's a kind of a fine line to. To get. And it's. It's tricky, really, isn't.

They know. But I love doing it. Like, I'm really good at it, but it's really being there, not too present. It's. Yeah, that's the role.

Adam Gow: 00:55:57

Yeah. Does. Do you ever get it where, say you've got an album put out, you've done all the press and stuff like that.

I appreciate things never fully switch off, but you've got this kind of ramping up in this intense period and then when the intensity, like, dissolves a bit, or if. Do you ever get artists that struggle then and they're like, well, what am I doing with my time now?

Dean Bryce: 00:56:19

On the management side, perhaps, but, you know, it's your job As a manager to remind the artist that recording is just one part of your career. You have songwriting, you have gigs or DJing, you have a lot more brand deals, merch, there's more to your career.

So when one side goes quiet, be it if you're not in the recording campaign, then you're okay, now you're writing or now you're going on the road. So as a manager we say, okay, that's now you're now off campaign, on the record, we're now doing this.

When you're in A R, you're kind of only involved in the recording side, right? So when the artist isn't in campaign or working on record, you're kind of just off.

You're kind of just like in touch every now and again, but not really every day. You might give them a year with minimal contact, like, how you doing? Checking in, occasionally getting ready for album number two, whatever.

So you know your role as an A norm isn't management. So when the artist. And sometimes, sometimes actually artists treat you like a manager, that's totally fine. I don't mind.

Especially if they're unmanaged. That's totally fine as an anal. But you know your role and your remix, when they're off recording, just leave them to it. Really?

Adam Gow: 00:57:31

Yeah, yeah. So Boiler Room then. What state was Boiler Room in when you started there? And like how did you go in there?

And I'm just wondering where because it just exploded so much. I'm wondering what part of the Boiler Room timeline you were there.

Dean Bryce: 00:57:50

Yeah, I've been a fan of Boiler Room since day zero. You know, the founder would often go on Ichat. Remember Ichat on the Mac can like send messages, instant messages, AIM Message or AIM chat. They.

There was an instant message service on. On the Mac. He would like DM me and say, is the camera on? It was supporting. Was so diy like he was doing the camera and whatever.

And then so I just like get.

Adam Gow: 00:58:15

A warehousing or some sort of like basically space.

Dean Bryce: 00:58:18

And it was done via a platform in the beginning called. Oh my God, what's it called? It was like a broadcasting YouTube. I forgot what it's called.

There's like a platform like YouTube but you could broadcast yourself. Is it like iTube or something? I forgot what it's called. And they weren't the first. There were other platforms. One by DJ MK called Funhouse.

They would get a lot of views. It was basically mk, his dj playing in his kitchen with friends. And that was bigger than Ballroom at one point.

Ballroom was just another version of this idea of DJs broadcasting to friends. But it wasn't run by a DJ, it was run by a business person.

That's probably why Boiler Room succeeded as whereas others didn't, because they're still DJs make. They're going to go offline while they go and do gigs abroad for a couple of weeks. Whereas Boiler Room's always on.

So I joined boiler room: 2017

So we were talking, talking and whatever. It didn't pan out for whatever reason, particularly because I don't want to start a label and just walk away.

I had ambitions of Technicolor being a really exciting label and it just launched. So I was like, I can't start something and leave.

Even though Boiler Room was higher paid, I was like, you know what, I got to finish this project off because it's really important to me to start a label and get it right. But so I joined Boiler Room. It was fully formed that they had. They'd been through several iterations of team.

They had a lot of money through investment. So there was a staff of like 50 globally when I. When I started there. When I left it was probably 30. They'd cut a lot of people.

So they were, they were known, they were doing their thing.

Adam Gow: 01:00:22

What was their monetization model then?

Dean Bryce: 01:00:25

So the Boiler Room model is what was. I don't want it. Well, it's twofold now. Then it really was a brand model. So you basically, you do your Boiler Room shows that aren't branded.

The kind of cooler underground shows just for the culture and the community. And then you do your shows that are branded by a big brand. Let's say a big booze company does shows in India, in wherever.

So you get your big brand ones and the smaller ones are there for positioning. They get paid at the big shows. You know, that was their thing.

So it was our, our task as a music team to really program globally and we would do it in, in quarters. So quarter one this year, we got X amount of money to go and spend on. On program shows. The brand team would say, okay, we need 10 branded shows here.

We got X amount. We would book those shows with the brand and Boiler Room gets a cut and gets paid for those big shows.

Adam Gow: 01:01:30

Right?

Dean Bryce: 01:01:30

Then latterly, latterly towards that Boiler Room, we're thinking okay, let's also start A model of shows that are ticketed and paid for. Boring was free.

So the new model which exists now, which happened as I was leaving, was a model for shows that are paid for globally because ballroom was always free around the world. In Argentina they were all free. But there was a real, a real high demand of shows. So they started charging for shows as well.

Adam Gow: 01:01:56

Yeah, because I'd imagine that they were getting, getting like high demand.

Dean Bryce: 01:02:00

Yeah, exactly.

Adam Gow: 01:02:03

And then. Because with Boiler Room then I was chatting to someone.

Tell me if we can't say this because I might have it wrong, but I think another thing that Boiler Room did, as far as I understand in terms of their YouTube presences, they actually negotiated with all the major labels.

Dean Bryce: 01:02:23

So.

Adam Gow: 01:02:23

So, so with the Boiler Room sets, they don't have all these copyright challenges that most other creators have on YouTube.

Dean Bryce: 01:02:29

I'm not sure if they were. That was right actually, because we didn't clear audio.

I think a lot of platforms just saw it was on Boiler Room didn't want to touch it because it meant a moment for their catalog. It meant something for the catalog evaluator like, you know, so I think no one flagged it as you know, this is on board.

I'll take it down because it was so valuable to be played by a certain dj. So, you know, we did. I'm pretty sure we didn't have deals in place with the partners. Maybe it's changed now.

But back then I know also no one even knew. There was no one really at Boiler Room with the music business experience about clearing rights and labels.

No one in the whole company knew about that at all. Like, like it was a very strange. In terms of like the, the business. It was music business adjacent, I would say, and not really business.

So one of the issues that I found at Boiler Room, I'm so used to dealing with artists hands on fully for a year on projects. When you're doing a show at Boiler Room with a DJ and artist, you're talking for a week or two weeks and they.

And then that's it, they go and it's on to the next dj. I'm really used to year long projects. Hands on projects. Close A R development. Not like bookie for a show you play. Goodbye. Who's next?

Adam Gow: 01:03:58

Were you. Were you there over lockdown or you left by then?

Dean Bryce: 01:04:01

No, before. I left before then. And I really think Boiler Room missed a trick during lockdown.

They missed a huge moment, I think because no one was doing events that they should have literally been broadcasting 24 7, I feel. But I wasn't there then Boiling room. Should have also started the label.

If both of them started a label when they were hot, like really hot, they'd probably be as big as Excel Records now. They'd have all the eyes, they'd have all the young amazing artists as records. But they've missed a big moment.

Adam Gow: 01:04:29

Yeah. Yeah. I suppose it must be. Must be quite a hard thing to then go into a totally different area. Whenever. When you.

You built around that one thing, you then have to kind of build a separate.

Dean Bryce: 01:04:43

Yeah, you need to be a visionary, because if you've got these young artists who are making records and they're unsigned, you've got Joy Orbison unsigned, you've got Mount Kimby unsigned, you've got Dean Blunt unsigned, who's doing really exciting stuff. And if you're. If you've got a background from a label, you think, you know what, let's put out an EP or record on album for these artists.

And it works the artist, because volume has the audience, you know, and it works for everybody, really. And they could have had a catalog which is really enviable in electronic music. Yeah.

Adam Gow: 01:05:17

So was. Was Don't. Is it been Don't Sleep since that point, since Boiler Room?

Dean Bryce: 01:05:22

Been Don't Sleep since: 2019

Adam Gow: 01:05:26

So can you just tell me a bit about Don't Sleep and about the. The kind of mission and the type of work?

Dean Bryce: 01:05:33

Yes. Don't Sleep is a record label and artist management company and it's basically based around my, I guess, my core music business strengths. Right.

So it's A and R and. And management.

And I kind of got to a stage where I thought I'd done really exciting projects across the business, you know, in management, signing artists. But I thought for.

Not on the management side, but on the work that I'd done, you know, working with artists and signing them, I kind of felt a bit slept on. So I was like, I'm going to start a company to really empower artists that were also slept on. Like, for instance, Ninja Tune. There were.

I couldn't sign. They didn't get them. One of the artists that was. I was talking to, I couldn't sign was Doja Cat.

She'd email me directly and I was trying to get on a record with Bonobo and I was told that, no, she ain't right for Bonobo now. She's a huge star. Emailing directly.

And I was like, sorry, they're saying no to the feature, you know, I mean, so I was trying to put an artist that were slept on to do greater things. So it was basically empowering me as a business person to not be slept on as well as the creatives that I work with.

Adam Gow: 01:06:52

Yeah, I suppose that it must be weird thinking, what if I'd signed Doja Cat?

Dean Bryce: 01:06:57

Oh, there's so many. So many artists. Doja Cat. Who else? There's a couple more, but, yeah, there's a couple. And it's crazy because we would.

Because a friend of mine in LA knew her, put us in touch. I'd met her before I went to la, had met her. She's really cool. And I was trying to get on a record for Bonobo and I was told no on Doja Cat.

Like, she's not the right artist.

Adam Gow: 01:07:18

And then. So another.

Another thing that kind of brought you to my attention as well was seeing you posting about Infinite Coles, Ghostface's son, and if anyone doesn't know, really good rapper singer, but also coming from the, like, the New York sort of vogue scene and stuff. Like, how did you discover him?

Dean Bryce: 01:07:39

Or.

Adam Gow: 01:07:39

Well, how. How did you. I'm not saying you discovered him, but yeah, how. How did you find his music?

Dean Bryce: 01:07:47

So Infinite originally worked with Richard Russell, who is the founder of XL Recordings.

Adam Gow: 01:07:51

Oh, okay.

Dean Bryce: 01:07:53

He was on Richard's Everything Is Recorded album number one and number two, and I was managing a guy called Berwin at the time, and I met Infinite at the studio and he was actually signed to Excel, actually for a minute, and his manager is an old friend of mine, and we got a chance to, you know, offer a deal and Excel happy with him coming to Don't Sleep and working on a project. And it's funny because Infinite's sound has changed from the ep, which is.

Which is called Destiny, named after his late sister, to his album Sweet Face Killer. And I think he's really found his voice. I think on the ep you really hear our influence and see our fingerprints because that's really like a.

An alternative R B record. But Imp found his own voice on the album and we're so proud of him. He's doing really exciting things.

But it was just through two sessions how we met, really.

Adam Gow: 01:08:50

Right. Because, yeah, I first heard it and I was like, it's so different. But then that. That.

That kind of lyrical fire sort of runs in the family, you know, so it's his.

Dean Bryce: 01:09:00

It's Inf's first time rapping. He rapped in private.

Adam Gow: 01:09:03

Really?

Dean Bryce: 01:09:04

Yeah, yeah, he's really a singer. Inf's a great singer, like, proper, like, church singer. Can Hit the notes like, he's a real. He sings, sing, sings. He sings. And he thought. So we.

We got the album demos and played it together in the office. And we were like. We called him. Was like, imp, that rap song is incredible. And he didn't want to go on the album. He was like, that's a mistake.

It shouldn't be on the album. We're like, no, no, no. This is your lead single. This is. This is absolutely incredible. And he was really unsure.

No compromise was taken on that project because he was worried about that track being seen as a diss to his dad, which it was seen in that way. And it wasn't actually a diss. So we did a. A side, B side.

The A side was single Sweet Face Killer, which was actually about men in general who were homophobic, generally. Men. Not. Not just that, his dad. And the B side was dad and I, which showed his love for his dad and told his story.

So we know it was more of a balanced story that way than putting out the single without any explanation.

Adam Gow: 01:10:12

Yeah. Because you don't want it to be like, abusing this to, like, get my leg up.

Dean Bryce: 01:10:17

Absolutely.

Adam Gow: 01:10:19

But, yeah, but I mean, I think that the performance and stuff, I was.

Dean Bryce: 01:10:22

Like, wow, that was a great campaign. Inf loves his family. You know, he's especially his uncle Riza. Rizza, his actual uncle Riza got him his first studio time for the album.

He's been really helpful across the project. I haven't met him or spoken to him, but he's been. He's been a real powerhouse. So big up rza. But Infinite is great. So talented.

And seeing where he's got to now for those early demos, it's a real pleasure.

Adam Gow: 01:10:48

Yeah. And seems like looking at the Instagram seems to be really on the grind with the videos and stuff like that and the live performances and stuff.

Working really hard.

Dean Bryce: 01:10:55

Yeah, it was crazy. He went from, like. Was it like 9,000 followers on Instagram to like 90 odds during the campaign? It was. It was really good.

Adam Gow: 01:11:05

Wow.

Dean Bryce: 01:11:06

Yeah. Great to watch.

Adam Gow: 01:11:07

Amazing. And so are there any other particular artists that are really clacking in that sort of exciting explosion period for the label at the moment?

Dean Bryce: 01:11:17

We've got. I think they're all exciting. So we've. We. Our biggest thing that we do is art development.

We spend months, sometimes years with artists before people even see them, developing them. And it's a real skill that's missing in the business nowadays.

It was really a normal thing in the industry to have artists that were signed and developed in this era of the TikTok microwave, it's all instant. People want to hear an artist immediately and get them out, which can be beneficial.

But the problems artists face is that how they repeat the song, the performance, how they come back with another single just as good with the same attraction. And it's hard to do without development and a team that believes in you.

So we've got like a bunch of really exciting artists on the roster on the recording side. So there's Infinite Coles working on another album. There's Cam Ob, who's a great producer. He's American.

He wrote a scissor on her first album, Dance in the Wind with Kendrick Lamar. And it is. He's done stuff for J. Cole, stuff for no Name. He did a. Her album, Telephone, Chance the Rapper. He did the whole album.

The Chance the Rapper album, coloring book and acid rap. Yeah. So we're putting out his album. We have an ep, we have incredible features on the record.

Like some of the names I've mentioned are on that album and ep. It's really exciting. Very punchy for a UK independent label, let alone one of our size of like three staff doing it in the middle of Brixton.

You know, it's kind of project. It came out on a big label, be like, wow. But it's coming out on a boutique independent that's really punchy. So we got a lot of stuff.

Adam Gow: 01:13:00

In the pipeline that's amazing and just a little shout to the Noname album. If anyone's got that or the next album going cheap, then just let me know because they're. They're hard albums to get.

Dean Bryce: 01:13:13

On vinyl. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Adam Gow: 01:13:19

So as well as that then. We've covered a lot there, but I think there's some. There's some other projects you've got that are more community based. Right. There's the.

Is it the Brixton club night?

Dean Bryce: 01:13:29

It's called Don't Sleep. So, yeah. So as.

As well as a label, there is a CIC side actually where we give back to the community and we do DJ night called Don't Sleep and we normally. I normally play there with a dj, a friend, so Thankful actress and Chinese daughter. We got her along.

But essentially it's just an event to make people dance. You know, dancing has become rarer and rarer. I don't know why, but I think being in a room with people and dancing is really important.

So as well as throwing events, the cic, we work with young people, give them education about the music industry. People from backgrounds that aren't normally given access to the business.

We teach them about, you know, management in our marketing, legals and then there's a DJ class which I'm going to do as well, and a class with a production which our internal producer Fin works on. But it's about giving these skills to young kids to learn about the business rather than be behind the microphone.

You can be a manager as well, you know, and have. Have those skills to really help others in the business and be the next wave of people in the business.

Adam Gow: 01:14:42

It's like future proofing, isn't it? Because you'll get these.

You know how many people have released a song, made a load of money from it, spent it all, not been able to recreate it or have any idea of where you go from there.

Dean Bryce: 01:14:55

It's also how you even like starting the business. I was lucky I met Juice who was a manager, but we had friends and the family of Saxon, but it was all diy. There was.

I would not have known how to get a job in the business at all if choose didn't, you know, take me under his wing and show me the business. So it's really about being a mentor to these young kids and I'm a big fan of each one Teach one and passing long knowledge.

Adam Gow: 01:15:18

Yeah, yeah. Is there anything else that we've not covered that we really need to get into?

Because I know like once I've pressed Stop and I'm listening back in the edit, I'll missed out asking about so.

Dean Bryce: 01:15:27

Much stuff we've not spoken about DJing actually. Like actual DJing. DJing. DJ.

Adam Gow: 01:15:32

Yeah. So how. Where's. Where's that been sort of over the years? Because we talked about the early days doing the pirate.

But if you kept DJing in between because I mean you've obviously got a massive record collection and I love like the videos that you have where you share in little sort of lists effectively. You got some wicked stuff on there.

Dean Bryce: 01:15:51

Yeah. So DJing, you know, it's been stop start back in the day. So I would. So my first gigs were with my friend Alvin, my mentor.

When I was 17 or 18 deejaying, I would play at these bars. I was underage, I was either 18 spots were 25 plus. But I'd play in the King's Road.

There was a bar full of like drunk rowdy Australians and I was like, right, Dean, go and play here. It was bag of records, it was all vinyl.

So I'd carry these records up with me for like a three hour set all on vinyl and I'd bought records for my friend Alvin and I play on my own. And it was tough, but it was like how you learn to get a crowd on your side.

Everyone's drunk, you're underage, you're there, like, make them dance for the next three hours. And that's a real skill. You learn how to work a party and also you learn to move a crowd, even if they're drunk and loud.

So it's like going to a DJ school as a kid and you're there kind of shitting yourself, like, how did this work? Or playing out in bars in Tooting and your mum gives you a lift on the way home because it's New Year's Eve and you can't get a cab.

It's those things that you do as a kid to really hone your skills. So I was playing out for a bit when I started working at labels like Ninja or even Boiler Room. I stopped for a long time.

I packed it in for a long time because I was so busy at work. So there were like little bits and pieces, but not really consistency.

But I got into it again because I zoomed out on the DJ business and I was like, hang on a minute. There are so many people we're playing at the moment who actually aren't DJs. They're just playing.

And I thought it was kind of diluting the culture of what DJs do. So several years ago I said, what? I'm going back into it. I'm going back. I've got records, I could dj. I'm very good at it. I'm gonna go back.

So I started DJing again with intention a few years ago.

Adam Gow: 01:17:57

Nice. So are you doing Reg. Are you doing residencies or.

Dean Bryce: 01:18:01

No residencies, but I play regularly. Like, I'm in Italy next week at a festival. Yeah, beach festival. I'm playing there. Play in New York occasionally. So, yeah, London.

Obviously, I live in London. But, yeah, I'm playing out with regularity. I pick and choose where I play. I'm very specific. I like to have a great sound system. I like a good crowd.

That's really, really important, you know? And I like promoters that are really interested in the music, who book great DJs. You know, I'm not really.

I go out still, you know, but I go out to people that I love. I'll go out to a DJ that I love and I'll check them and I'll.

I won't probably do a whole night, but I'll go out and see someone that I Love, but I'm really, you know, there's art to DJing and not everyone's got it. My favorites are Josie Rebel. Love Josie. She's incredible. I love a guy called A side. He's a great dj, actually.

He didn't play out often, but he's incredible. I like Benji B, you know, Charlie Dark and there are others. I love the Pioneers. I love, you know, Larry Levan, a complete G of a dj.

I'm inspired by those guys, really, who really, like, shaped culture.

Adam Gow: 01:19:17

Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's amazing. So is there anything coming up that we need to make people aware of?

Dean Bryce: 01:19:26

Oh, gee, what's coming up? Nothing release wise, but no. Okay. So I would just say keep an eye on, you know, the whole roster at Down Sleep.

That's Jesse Blakemore, Wesley, Leila, Malenka, Terry. They're really exciting artists. Anya Martin is really exciting as well. She's got a great project coming up with Bonobo on Ninja Tune. Check that out.

That's out in September. Check that out. Infinite Coles, of course, and Camobi.

Adam Gow: 01:19:54

Amazing. That's been lovely. Thanks very much for your time, Dean, and yeah, keep doing the good work.

Dean Bryce: 01:20:02

Thanks. Having me. Appreciate it.

Adam Gow: 01:20:04

Great stuff. Well, yeah, and thanks for being, I would say, the inaugural guest on Paths of Rhythm as well.

Dean Bryce: 01:20:10

You're welcome.

Adam Gow: 01:20:11

Lovely. All right, mate. Thanks for that.

Dean Bryce: 01:20:13

Thank you. Appreciate it. Take care, man. Bye.

Adam Gow: 01:20:15

Bye.

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Paths of Rhythm is a remote Ctrl production, which is my day to day business, specializing in audio and video production, podcast, podcasts, webinars, all that sort of good stuff, largely in the B2B space. To find out more about what we do, head to remote ctrl.co.uk thanks for listening and I'll be back with you soon.